Dropping Art GCSE?

[emMo13]

DD wants to drop art GCSE because she feels the workload is too high and she doesn’t have enough time to revise for other subjects. DD is a procrastinator but has recently started to get down to it and has now realised she’s started too late. I have been telling her she needs to get her finger out for since half way through year 10, but to no avail. Maybe it’s my shoddy parenting. Regardless, I’m willing to accommodate her wishes because I don’t think that not letting her drop it out of spite is going to achieve anything at this point. I’m 100% sure that if DD replaced the time she was spending doing art, she’d do incredibly well at the rest of her subjects (she has 10 others, and did RE last year), since she spends days on it and nothing else. Yes - it’s a time management thing when it comes to art (I’ve been blasted about that before) but she insists that if she had to do it to a passable quality she’d still spend a significant amount of time on it and there’s no point spending that time just to get a 4 or a 5. Thoughts? Has anyone ever dropped art so late?

can'tkeepawayforever I always find it quite funny how stereotyped the cohorts at selective schools are by MN posters who give every indication that they've no experience of them. I can assure you that the minute someone gets wind of someone else dropping a subject it's round the year group like wildfire. If it was as simple as letting any student drop a subject on a whim to free up more time for gaming then most of my DCs' peers would have been queuing round the block for the same privilege. We're talking sparky fifteen year old's here - they're very far from the angelic little workaholics that exist only in MN lore.

On the other hand I do find it quite shocking that posters stereotype students at comps in the way they've been caricatured above - not funny at all. And of course the parents come in for the same caricature treatment as well.

sendsummer has been the only other poster with enough emotional intelligence to actually juxtapose stress and time management. That first issue is the thing which would trouble the SLT at our school, and rightly so. They're also quite equal to telling any student who just fancies a bit of extra time to fritter away to buzz off and think again. I really am perplexed at the one size has to fit all approach on here. I would really worry if my DC attended such a school.

Very well said cantkeepawayforever in both posts.
It's all a bit ridiculous:
Q - Why can't they just drop a subject?
A- Because schools have to make policies and decisions based on their contexts and cohorts.
Q- Well that's obvious but you haven't said what the difference is?
A- This is the difference.
Q- You're getting tied in knots. What is the difference?
A- No I'm not. I'm pointing out the same basic points multiple times.
Q- I know you are but you're not answering my question. What's the difference?
A - I have. Cohorts and context.
Q- What's the difference?
A- Well this is the difference in cohorts and contexts
Q- You're not answering my question. I know what the difference is between different school contexts and cohorts. But why shouldn't child X in a comprehensive not be allowed to do Y when in a selective school children can drop subjects on demand?
A - because schools make their decisions based on their cohort and contexts (something theoretically established pages ago)
bangs head on brick wall

It's not about what the differences are between selective and non selective schools. The differences are very well known. It's about why dropping a subject for a high achiever in a comp should be judged by different criteria to the identical situation in a grammar.
Because the school cohort and contexts are different.

I expect the OP has lost the will to live.

goodbye I gave a specific example as to why a comp might view things differently from a selective school. Did you read it?

Anyway, this is going round in circles and without the OP providing any more info, I think I'll bow out. Happy New Year.

On the other hand I do find it quite shocking that posters stereotype students at comps in the way they've been caricatured above - not funny at all. And of course the parents come in for the same caricature treatment as well.
What?
There's no stereotyping of students in comprehensives. Comprehensives (funnily enough) contain a full range of students. As such their cohorts are different and schools will make decisions based on the range of students they teach. Sigh.

I could point out cohorts and contexts have varied between the state schools I've worked in and as such different schools have had different approaches to Key Stage 4 but I fear that might be a little too mind-blowing. I mean, how could it be possible that school A does something different from B who does something different from C. It's unbelievable that state comprehensives schools would do such a thing.

can'tkeepawayforever the very strong thrust at the moment in the selective sector is for a three year KS4. Lots of the schools have gone over to it already and many more are planning to follow suit.

MaisyPops if you don't want to answer it's fine. If you can't answer that's also fine.

TeenTimesTwo
Fair point.

how motivated are they going to be sitting in the classroom “doing the work” but knowing they aren’t entered and it’s a waste of their time (answer: not motivating and the student rapidly gets fed up, truants, complains, distracts others)
Actually the converse may happen. Once the stress of art GCSE is removed the OP’s DD may actually start to enjoy the subject and therefore progress. Which after all is one of the points of education.
The scenarios of truanting, disruption etc seem unlikely in the OP’s case and in can be dealt with the same sanctions that would be applied to any student who misbehaves.

MaisyPops I am sure that your profer excellent advice to your students but advice won’t be enacted until maturity and perspective set in (unless in the case of some pupils parental handholding enforces it or the school is very strict). Whatever the situation, flexibility is desriabke in year 11, not just for extreme cases but to be pragmatic about what is in the individual pupils’ best interests for their future.

Also if a DC is over stressed by workload, being told they can use what little downtime they have to fit in extra work out of hours does not seem the best solution.

A school in which a bit of flexibility is viewed ‘as a nightmare to arrange’ and therefore not possible can’t be serving the best interests of their pupils.

MaisyPops if you don't want to answer it's fine. If you can't answer that's also fine.
I have already answered multiple times.
The more you claim to have not had an answer despite there being multiple answers from me and other posters on this thread, the more daft you come across.

TTT yes I did read it. Also your caricature of students/ parents at the two types of school.

MaisyPops I don't have an issue with appearing daft and I've said we might as well leave it if you don't want to answer the question.

I suspect the OP is quite content to get some backing for her DD to drop Art and to know that at least some schools are sensible enough to consider it as a viable route to minimize obvious stress.

send
Extenuating circumstances doesn't have to be extreme issues. It's just circumstances sitting beyond normal situations (e.g. I've known a student drop a GCSE in Year 11 due to training in A sport at a high level). A school policy of dropping subjects on demand in y11 isn't a viable option for most comprehensive schools.

Without us knowing what steps the OP and her child have taken, it's not possible to say for certain either way whether dropping a subject would be an extenuating circumstance.

E.g. Has the DC made revision/prep timetables that are realistic and include breaks and down time? Is it a case of her art teacher needing to be a bit more direct on expectations to get through to a good level vs open ended keep trying feedback? Could her DC use tutorial time to catch up? Is it a case of not getting the brief in whcih case could the art teacher put intervention in? Is she using her time effectively in class? Is she making the most of any revision/prep time that's available out of hours? Are there certain techniques she's stronger on that she could use for her final pieces rather than perhaps making life more difficult for herself (zero judgement but I've known students who want to do well in art spend ages trying a new set of techniques or principles for their final exam prep when they could get as high marks in their stronger elements)? Is there a homework club/study space she could use to help organise her homework or revision? If she's getting overwhelmed, is there a mentor or counsellor in school she could speak to? Etc.

As I mentioned up thread, there are things school leaders have to consider before making such judgements.

MaisyPops I don't have an issue with appearing daft and I've said we might as well leave it if you don't want to answer the question
Answered up thread.
Replied clarifying and quoted the answer.
Other posters have replied with an answer.
You're just being goady.

My DD took Art GCSE last year.
I think it's a red herring that there is a giant workload. My DD went to the art room every lunchtime and spent 40 mins working on her art. No work done outside of school. She got a grade 8. She was organised and understood what quantity of work needed to be completed, but admittedly is naturally good at art and was able to produce quality too.

I would ask your DD's Art teacher:

1. What grade does he expect your DD to achieve based on her work so far and talent? He/she must have an idea by this point.
2. What is the volume of work in terms of number pages in her sketchbook / finished pieces, required to (a) Achieve a 4/5 (b) Achieve a 6/7 or higher.

Then maybe ask her teacher to go through what she's been doing so far with your DD present and comment on whether she's doing too much or is spending too much time on the wrong things. My feeling could be that it's a form of escapism from the 'academic' work she has to do and there's no way anyone should spend

description of range of attitudes & abilities != caricature

That's really good daisy.

When I was a student art seemed to be one of those subjects that could take up as much time as you allow it to.

It's a similar situation for a few of my GCSE students too. Some are intent on doing loads of pieces to pick the best from, whereas others will do 4 as well as they can and that's that.

I hadn't thought about the escapism angle. I've definitely seen that too and did something similar as a student but for a different subject.

Whoops posted too early...
no way anyone should spend more than an hour a night on GCSE Art.

MaisyPops you've used a lot of words not answering the question but it really is best to let it go rather than this constant re-iteration. You haven't, and it's fine.

TTT I'm not sure your description was inoffensive. A lot of parents at our selective school have other DC in neighbouring comps. They don't become less interested in their education because one of their DC is less academically able than the other and I can absolutely assure you that my own DSs in particular can while away hours on the xbox and prefer that by far to homework etc. These DC share most characteristics of ordinary modern fifteen year olds. It's very odd to set the two groups as worlds apart in terms of attitudes and habits especially since plenty of areas don't have access to selective schools. I'm mildly offended by the idea that I've bred a whole series of little bookworms but not half as offended as I'd be by the 'description' of parents of students at comps and the 'description' of the students themselves. It's very MN though.

It's super obvious that any of the creative subjects or performing arts are a seriously good antidote to more usual classroom based work. I've always recommended that each of my DC do at least one subject like this. All DC need a change and to mix things up.

I do realise that teachers contributing here are very well meaning, work hard and may often have themselves have to deal with systems they don’t buy into because of their SLT and finances.
However I fail to see how, even if this girl manages to transform how she copes with art course work in the next few weeks of year 11 thanks all the good advice you are providing (unlikely as she has n’t yet). a 12th GCSE is going to make the slightest difference to her.

Thoughts of the relationship between Kafka and his father and theme of his resulting novels are floating into my mind after reading some of the posts here.

I know I said I was checking out of this thread, but honestly goodbye I am beginning to think you are being wilfully obtuse.

I said that comps are likely to have a wider range of parental and pupil engagement. I did not stereotype pupils at selective schools to all be bookworms, nor all parents at comps to be not interested.

Maybe more accurate than wider range I should have said greater variance, but I am not convinced you would understand the difference.

Have you seen the 'Educating' series, or the recent 'School' ? Have you seen the level of disengagement from some pupils?

(I am a comp parent by the way.)

Returning to an earlier point:

the very strong thrust at the moment in the selective sector is for a three year KS4

Why? KS4 - preparation for a necessarily limited number of GCSEs - is where education narrows. Subjects like music, drama, multiple languages, the full range of DT etc drop away from student timetables - sometimes only 1 or 2 years after they are first introduced.

It is one of those things where it LOOKS - from the outside - like a move to ensure the highest possible grades, though I'm entirely willing to be told it's not.

Can you explain why the most able pupils are being given a restricted range of subjects from the earliest possible moment? As I say, local comprehensives have full 3 year KS3 - music, drama, art, PE, 3x DT subjects, 3x sciences for all students, 2x languages for all except those of the lowest ability - before choices are made for a 2 year KS4 programme leading to between 7 and 10 GCSEs. GCSE curriculum started in Y9 for the core subjects - Maths, English, Sciences - but not for the others.

cant Our comp does 'mini options' going into year 9, where you pick 2/4 techs and 2/5 creative arts (or do 1 tech and a second MFL). The same time is given to tech and arts as before they introduced this, but now it is more focussed. They say you can still do the GCSE in one of these even if you didn't do it for y9.

I think that works quite well as they get more time allocated so can achieve more and increase skill level for those that do want to progress one of them to GCSE.

Our comp has moved to a 3 year KS4. Not a fan myself.

Schools might start backtracking from a 3 year KS4 now that Ofsted have said that they don’t care about internal data and do care about quality of curriculum.

(How have I missed an education ruck in the holidays? )