Why do people openly criticise decisions to send your kids to a private school?

[scotmum1977]

I sent my Son to a private school (Glasgow) last year for various reasons and it's working out really well. There is the cost but we just do without expensive holidays etc. I can't think of a better gift for my children than a good education. I was so surprised at how offended people get when they ask which school he attends. They think it's ok to criticise you openly and make bitchy comments here and there. Surely how you spend your own money is your own business. Anyone else have this experience?

Hardly ranting. Not as I've seen ranting on this thread and others :)

Well I buy that you got asked the question Pyjamas, but not that it's representative of all or even most social interaction at Oxford, which is the representation. Not beyond freshers' week anyhow when it seems fairly legit.

Because despite our nation's obsession with class, we don't like queue jumpers.

My DS is Y7 now and there is quite a bit of crossover between the local state and private school mainly because of sports where they mix a lot. Most of the private school kids have their school listed in their Instagram bio. The state mainly don’t. The school is so much more a part of private school kids identity than it is for state schools.

Iamalways

That is just one example, there are plenty of lower income families having music lessons. Mh and/or attitude can be a barrier to children, but a good parent would see their limits and ask somebody to act on their behalf.
I used to take a child to choir practice because her mum is disabled and unable to do it.
She wasn't a friend, she just asked the LA for support, she found out my dd went and I offered as soon as I knew she was struggling.
There is always a way, perhaps a bit harder for the likes of us low income families, but the help is there.

If you aren't in SW London goodbye you make that statement against a different set of variables. The division is difficult to explain if you have not experienced it. Even within the M25 there is far more homogeneity beyond zone 4.

I also think "some of us don't need to spend our pennies to send our children to Oxford en-masse" is about as snootily condescending as it gets.

Iamalwayslikethis - i assume I'm right because I see it myself first hand so I know it does happen. You're the one saying it can't happen because it didn't happen to you. You've made the classic error of assuming all private schools are like super expensive boarding schools. I mean, gordonstoun! It's hardly representative of a small local private school!

Romany- I am sure there are some low income families with children in orchestras but I can’t imagine it is an even balance.

Plenty of low income families in orchestras. At least half In the orchestra I played in recently. Furthermore when I was a child I didn't know anyone in our orchestra who wasn't poor. They have excellent music teachers in state schools.

@RedSkyLastNight def disagree with this. I know lots of kids who go to a state school and participate in music

You've missed my point. I was saying that the sort of activities that private school pupils take part in where they meet state school pupils tend to be things such as music. But the state school pupils doing these activities tend to be the ones from affluent educated families i.e. the exact same type of children they meet at private school.

DD (attends a comprehensive) and has several friends from low income families. The only out of school activities they take part in are the free ones at their school because their families can't afford anything else. A private school child would simply never come across these children unless they met them somewhere like the local park or "playing out" (not meant to be insulting,that's exactly how my DC have met children who go to different schools to them, but not all parents are happy to let their DC hang out with "unknown" children.)

thegirl I’m telling my experience. You’re saying it doesn’t happen, it’s all lalalaa social mixing. Bs in my experience.

romany yes it is one experience and one that is played out again and again. I am regarded with deep suspicion in my parents neighbourhood because I GASP went to university so they all assume I’m up myself.

There is a reason that there is so little social mobility in this country. Saying stuff like ‘that is one experience’ is so massively disingenuous.

“Furthermore when I was a child I didn't know anyone in our orchestra who wasn't poor.”
“Poor” is a relative term.

The point about the ‘where did you go to school’ question is that it would never be asked by anyone but the privately educated. Everyone else just asks where you come from.

There is an assumption that EVERYONE went private because such people can’t even imagine such a thing as a state school educated child being at Oxford.

Mine kept up with some of their primary friends for a while at least, some were members of ds's cricket club, some through church, etc., but almost without exception they were from affluent and aspirational families who didn't have money for the fees. I have never heard the words "it is against my principles to educate my children privately" fall from the lips of anyone who had the money to do it who didn't later send their dc private.

DD shares a flat with a state educated girl. Her first words to dd were "where did you go to school?". DD politely replied "London". Flatmate went to a super selective state school in tbe north and DH's response was "wow, I only went to xx comp there".

7 girls from dd's school year there; none from flat mate's.

The point about the ‘where did you go to school’ question is that it would never be asked by anyone but the privately educated

Exactly. It is a value judgement. Private school kids use it to assess quickly where they sit in the pecking order.

I have asked my son where acquaintances/potential friends of his go to school and he looks at me blankly and has told me "No one asks those questions mum, nobody CARES where they go to school". It is irrelevant to him. What trainers they wear or how many kills they have on Fortnite is how he assesses value.

Yes, that is absolutely the only way they could possibly meet their state educated peers. Everyone knows that the only thing state educated children do is hang around the local park

Of course state educated children do more things than hang around the local park (though my own state educated DC seem to spend quite a lot of time doing just that ...).

But seriously how else do you suggest your average private school child will meet the stereotypical state school child from the local housing estate? They are unlikely to be taking part in the same out of school activities. Their parents are unlikely to know each other. That only leaves (that I can think of, please correct me) the fact that they come across each other whilst out and get to know each other (which of course requires a certain personality of DC).

Plenty of low income families in orchestras

Not in my area, where there there are no music subsidies and music lessons are a minimum of £12 for 20 minutes.

Sport has quite a lot of crossover, but it depends what sport I think. There is a more diverse mix in our local football clubs than at the rugby or cricket. Netball is fairly mixed but again once you get to a higher level of performance such as county level, it tends to be dominated by private school children, but there is still a mix.

@RedSkyLastNight sounds like each area is different. We have free music tuition in state schools here and a big uptake hence lots of orchestras etc. Probably relative then if it's free here and not where you are. Seems unfair.

The fact is that my dc will be managing dc who came from local estates. They will be polite and kind but it is unlikely they will socialise with those who don't move into professional circles. Don't see the obsession with dc mixing with them. It's an argument that isn't played in reverse.

It isn’t the “excellent music teachers in state schools” who teach instruments though is it, it is music instructors who come into schools who do that (music teachers have whole classes). My ds hasn’t been offered any instrumental instruction at his primary (paid or otherwise) - perhaps he is as tone deaf as his mother and all the rest get orchestra opportunities, but I doubt it.

scotmum1977
We have free music tuition in state schools here and a big uptake hence lots of orchestras etc.
Not any more.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46195063

It’s hard not to hope that one of these “estate” children one day end up running a company that your dc work for, ohtheroses - could you stand the shame?

scotmum

I think it depends on what area in England ito music provision.
It was good in our area, as soon as a child showed an interest they were encouraged into an ensemble. There weren't many choosing music but those that did were all from wc backgrounds and those on pp/fsm and some other benefits were given free/ heavily subsidised lessons.
We are in the NW. I think a lot of provision in the South/ more affluent areas is now private companies, who know the parents can afford top dollar fees.
Our ensembles are £25 per annum, for as many as you like, and free to those that qualify.
Mine exhausted all the local provision and asked to audition for the specialist music school she attends.
We are poor and have managed it, and I'll admit part of the reason for allowing her to attend was the nature of the school and the leg up she will hopefully gain.
Schools like these stop the elitism of music, there are similar for dance and sport.

I would be amazed if there are many kids playing in orchestras who don’t have extra curricular music lessons. Certainly I don’t know of many.