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Original poster

4 A levels ?

80 replies

Min3rva · 30/10/2018 15:46

I am interested to know if there is any benefit to studying 4 subjects at A level anymore. My Dd keen to do maths and further maths but I think she'd need to have another 2 subjects as surely maths would only count as 1?

OP posts:
TeenTimesTwo · 30/10/2018 15:54

It counts as 2 but for an able mathematician it may well be less work than 2, so there might be bandwidth for another one.

I did 2 maths & physics a million years ago and went on to do a maths degree.

What does slightly worry me is 2 maths plus 1 other isn't actually very broad so may cut down course option compared with eg Maths, Physics, Chemistry or Maths, Chemistry, Geography.

However I'm not personally up to speed with current requirements for uni. The two teenagers I know have both done 2 maths + 2 other subjects. (But both had near perfect GCSE results).

TeenTimesTwo · 30/10/2018 15:56

Double maths was always the exception to '3 A levels' even in the 80s. The only people I knew then who did 4 all did double maths (and no, it wasn't just people on my maths degree!)

riotlady · 30/10/2018 15:56

Universities base their offers on 3 a levels, so you are far better off working hard to do really well in 3 than quite well in 4. Further maths counts as an a level in its own right.

I did 5 as levels and school pushed me to do 4 a levels, but I refused and did 3. I still ended up at Oxford.

Here’s a useful guide if your daughter is aiming for a top uni- www.trin.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/applying/a-level-subject-combinations/

Blessthekids · 30/10/2018 16:14

Might be an idea to first check out the course she wants to do at University then work backwards from there. Many University courses give offers based on 3 A-levels so doing 4 may prove to be pointless.

BillywigSting · 30/10/2018 16:18

4 a levels is a LOT of work too. Maths, further maths and two others might not be as bad as some other combinations but I'd be careful about her stretching herself too thin.

I did maths and the 3 sciences and that was bloody hard going. I very nearly packed in biology and would have got better results doing just the three

VenusInSpurs · 30/10/2018 16:22

Having looked at many RG / 'top' universities this Open Day season for Maths and Science subjects we have not come across one that makes offers on 4 A levels instead of 3, or want 4 A levels.

It is grades that count.

And for individual courses, the subjects. So check on the course requirements for anything that might appeal.

mumsneedwine · 30/10/2018 16:25

Good to do if going to do maths degree. But some courses won't count further maths and maths - they pick one. So will still need another 2. 4 is a lot but I'd love maths then should be ok. Sort of depends what they intend to do at Uni. 3 good results are better than 4 almost all good.

meditrina · 30/10/2018 16:26

Doing 4, when 2 of the 4 are maths/further maths, is still pretty normal. (It does give you a bit of extra wiggle room if the course requires only 3 but is mathsy enough that in practice everyone has FM.

Sometimes people do 4 when the 4th is a language they are fluent in.

Otherwise, it's 3 as standard +/- EPQ

oneteen · 30/10/2018 16:31

FM is counted by "most" Uni's as a fourth A level apart from if you want to study something like medicine where they would discount FM and state that they would like to see 3 other A levels as well as FM if taken.

I think most schools are now going down the route of encouraging DC's to just take 3 A level exams and an EPQ - although lots of DC's start with 4 A levels and drop one at some stage.

There is no need to take 4 now given that most Uni's will only score (offer on) 3 and I think doing an EPQ gives the DC's an opportunity to show an aptitude for whatever degree they would like to take by researching something related to their subject but not necessarily covered within the A level syllabus which may give a slight advantage or at least a talking point if interviews for Uni are involved.

DrMadelineMaxwell · 30/10/2018 16:32

Not much choice in Wales. They have to do Welsh bacc which is the workload of a subject, so they don't then recommend that the students take on 4 additional A levels.

DrDeluxe · 30/10/2018 16:37

My DS school offers further maths AS. Might be an option if 4 is proving too much.

He seems to be coping fine so far even though other two subjects are essay heavy

JustRichmal · 30/10/2018 16:40

Dd wants to do 4 and I think it is worth trying and seeing how she gets on. It may be that there is one she does not like, but only finds that out when she starts A levels. It may be the work load is too much and she can cut back to 3 then.

She wants to do 4 because she wants to learn, so I do not see the problem in doing 4 to start with and seeing how it goes. If she starts 3 and wants to do a 4th, this will not be possible when the courses have started.

Soomaa · 30/10/2018 17:07

My oldest does four. Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Design Technology. And a EPQ. He has the option for and AS Level in Further Maths after year 12 and drop it after that.
He doesn't do it for his uni application. He just loves learning, is a maths freak and really likes DT and didn't want to drop it.

heartofgold · 30/10/2018 17:15

as a mature student (5 years ago) i was given an entry scholarship for the 4 grade-a a levels i got 25 years ago. so they did eventually turn out to be worth it :D

Bluntness100 · 30/10/2018 17:20

Op, if I read you correctly it's you who wishes her to do four?not her specifically?

What degree does she wish to do?

MsAwesomeDragon · 30/10/2018 17:27

Dd1 did 4 ALevels last year (maths, FM, physics and chemistry) and ended up with AAAB. I don't think she would have improved the 2 A grades to As if she hadn't done the fourth, she would have just spent more time on extra curricular activities.

Her grades were enough to get her into her chosen course everywhere except Oxbridge. So she's happy she did the 4, she says it stopped her getting bored. But she is a girl who adores learning, and loves maths/science/computing, anything logical.

If your DD loves, and is very good at, maths then maths, further maths and 2 others seems like a reasonable workload. And if she starts on 4 then finds the workload to much or finds one subject too hard she can always drop one later in the year.

cestlavielife · 30/10/2018 17:27

What does she want to study at uni ? That s the main thing to look at
If it isn't maths she needs 2 otger subjects .
She can always drop further maths if it gets too much

Sadik · 30/10/2018 17:34

DrMadelineMaxwell "Not much choice in Wales. They have to do Welsh bacc"
That definitely seems to be slipping. DD is doing 4 AS inc FM, and no Welsh Bacc & same is true for others doing 4. (I think it involves a cunning fudge by college with them doing basic skills instead.) I know in other 6th forms there are also a fair no. of DC not taking Welsh Bacc.

Obviously it's different here as still have AS/A2, but dd is working hard but OK so far with 4 inc maths/FM/Physics (4th is Chem) as she says there's a fair amount of overlap between the subjects. She'll decide whether to continue with 4 or drop FM after AS.

noblegiraffe · 30/10/2018 17:47

I’ve seen kids recently do perfectly well in uni applications with FM as one of three, or as a fourth.

I’ve also seen kids take AS FM and drop to 3 for Y13.

FM is pretty essential if you want to take maths/physics/engineering type courses at uni.

A benefit of taking 4 is keeping uni options more open if she’s not sure what she wants to do yet. Maths, FM + one other is quite a narrow choice.

ladydickisathingapparently · 30/10/2018 17:50

Thanks for asking this, ds has to make a provisional choice next week (didn’t realise it would be so horrifically early!) and at the minute is saying he’d like to do maths, further maths, chemistry and physics. He wants to study either chemistry or natural sciences I think.

The information we’ve had so far from School is that they only allow maths + further maths if you get an 8 or 9 at GCSE plus they reserve the right to require an internal exam in September if (as likely) they are over-subscribed. Is that usual? I’m guessing if not successful he’d “just” do maths, physics and chemistry. Any insight on whether that might affect his chosen degree?

clary · 30/10/2018 18:01

Ds2 is looking at Maths, FM and PE. I would rather he had biology/chemistry in the mix too but his most likely 6th form does FM as a separate option now with the full 5 lessons (rather than an add on with 3 lessons as previous yrs) so a fourth is going to be A LOT of work. M/FM/PE so do narrow tho

irregularegular · 30/10/2018 18:04

My daughter is doing 4 completely different A-levels (i.e., not Maths and Further Maths. She is doing them all to keep her options open as she is not sure what she wants to do next, and her two ideas need different subjects. If she knew exactly what she wanted to do she would probably drop one.

Maths, FM and one other is pretty narrow, so she would have to be fairly sure what she wants to do next. And Maths and FM is not as much work as two A-levels if you are good at Maths. I do oxbridge admissions and plenty of candidates only have 3 A-levels, but three including M and FM would be rare. But still fine if it satisfies the course requirements.

clary · 30/10/2018 18:07

Actually we have spoken to a lot of a level maths teachers lately and they all said FM is a LOT of work, you need to he v good at maths (8 minimum) even to start it. That's why as I say some schools are offering it as one of three options.

Maybe I'll look a bit more closely at uni admissions. Thing is, if you want to do a maths degree you need FM it seems.

Haskell · 30/10/2018 18:07

All the 6th forms I know expect further maths to be a fourth a level, not the third. She would need to choose two other to go along with the maths. Also, most would expect a 7 in maths GCSE to be able to take further maths.

irregularegular · 30/10/2018 18:13

At my daughter's school 4 A-levels (whether or not FM ) is actually standard, though not universal. But it is a super selective grammar. No point if it is going to be a struggle.

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