4 A levels ?

[Min3rva]

I am interested to know if there is any benefit to studying 4 subjects at A level anymore. My Dd keen to do maths and further maths but I think she'd need to have another 2 subjects as surely maths would only count as 1?

A levels have definitely got harder. My son got into a very competitive course with 4 ASs and 3 A levels. Grades count the most. However none of his subjects were overlaps in that way.

I went to see the admission people at Imperial and UCL

they both said they would rather ds got 3 very good A levels than 4 good A levels so advised him to do Maths, FM and Physics rather than Maths, FM, Physics plus one other

so he's doing only 3. FM is considered as a full A level.

he also had to get an 8 or more in Maths at GCSE to be able to do FM at A level

Just to add one other point - some Uni's expect DC to take further FM if it is offered at the school/Sixth Form and they intend do some form of degree that involves Maths.

Yy we have been told that too, deffo do FM if you plan a maths degree or they'll want to know why not (assuming it is offered at Yr 6th form obv)

It's an advantage in the lower sixth to pick 4 in case one doesn't work out - at my daughters school they all study 4 subjects until at least February in lower sixth then those struggling with a subject or finding 4 hard drop a subject, more drop at the end of the lower sixth. My daughter is sticking with 4 but all her offers are for "any 3"

I think those wanting to study FM should be starting with an 8 or 9 at GCSE
Definitely. My Dd got a 9 at GCSE and is finding FM very hard going. 2 of her classmates have dropped out already and they've only been there since September.

When my DS was looking at uni's for a Maths degree he was told FM was not essential as many schools don't offer it at A level. However he found it helped during the first few months of uni, as they were covering subjects that he had already done in his FM A level (although not in the same depth).

DC1 is doing the final edit of their PS and decided on the unis & courses. I'd be interested to hear folks' views on their application preferences...
Uni A - subject 1
Uni B - subject 1
Uni C - subject 1 & 2
Uni B - subject 1 & 3

Uni B likely to offer 33-34 IB points based on their published entry requirements. Unis A and C likely to both offer 34-36 points. All are RG.

Bugger - wrong thread!

In general it's Medicine courses who don't count FM as a separate subject.

LSE also used to not count FM separately (except for mathsy courses) but seems to have changed their policy this year, whereby it's only certain degrees that discourage Math, FM + 1

The full list for LSE is here www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/Undergraduate/Prospective-Students/How-to-Apply/Admissions-Information

Don't they do general studies anymore? In the nineties I did maths, physics, chemistry , biology and general studies! But I stupidly dropped biology after first year. People who did further maths instead ended up with five but it wasn't considered a 'full' a level for university purposes.

At our school those who take Further Maths can take 5 Alevels as the two Maths are taught in one block over the two years so essentially counts as one A level.

My ds is taking 4 Alevels without Further Maths.

Further Maths being good on its own or not and whether ASs are the right thing to do seem to be a bit like one of those urban myths. I’d say ask your school and if you trust them follow advice.
Kings Maths School only offer 3 including FM, plus an AS in economics or CS. And their results and university offers are outstanding. But possibly what makes the difference is that all students intend to study maths or related at uni, and their curriculum is much broader in a maths sense through not just EPQ but broader research work even in Y12. Things a mainstream school without university links wouldn’t be able to offer.

I am Year 10 mom, I have a silly question -

If anyone takes Maths, Chemistry and Physics, would he be able to apply for both Engineering and Medicine courses? Looks like Biology isn't compulsory for Medicine courses.

My friends son did both and gained a place at Durham. It is worthwhile if following a Science degree too. It depends on the student I think and the course they hope to achieve a place on.

I went to an open day at Cambridge and was told Biology isn’t essential for medicine but chemistry most definitely is.

Biology is compulsory for about half the medicine courses currently. Each Uni has own rules and they change yearly.

He did get 100% in his A level and 97% in FM and a 1st in History.
My GP’s daughter went on to study Chemistry and my daughter’s friend studied Bio - chemistry and is a research scientist for a medical condition dear to her heart.

If he wants to do medicine, it’s not something he can really sit back and wait to choose when the offers roll in. Medicine is highly competitive so if he wants to do medicine, he needs to go all-out for medicine not go ‘hmm well I’ll apply for both medicine and engineering and see what happens’.

Obviously if he’s in Y10 he has got a bit of time to do some research - can he talk to some Y13s in his school who are applying for medicine?

"medicine [would] discount FM and state that they would like to see 3 other A levels as well as FM if taken."

That is mis-stated.
Medicine courses won't count math & FM as separate subjects; they'll probably take the better grade of the two, though, if taken in same year.

DD will do chem+bio+FM in yr13 which is perfectly acceptable to every med school I contacted, as applicant A-levels. What would be problem in a medicine application would be only 3 a-levels in yr13= math+FM+another.

Very few kids apply for medicine, so apols to all those bored of such talk.

expat1407

I'm pretty sure that only chemistry is required for all medicine courses, but biology only for some universities. Maths is incredibly useful too, but not a requirement. So your DS's subjects wouid fit the requirements for either subject at many/most universities, but it might be hard to write a personal statement covering both. Medics in particular need to have plenty of relevant experience (volunteering, care sector work, St Johns Ambulance etc) which might not leave much space over for demonstrating a keen interest in engineering.

Thanks everyone for your response.

DS will have to decide in Jan/Feb of Year 11. I am hoping that he'll make up his mind about what he wants to do. He isn't extra bright to try both Engg/Medicine and other courses.

Just a final thing on this (as it bugs me when wrong info is given out). Biology is required by about half the Uni courses for medicine. Maths is needed for none of them. My DD is a first year so just gone through the process.

@expat no biology isn’t necessarily needed for medicine-DH didn’t do biology, he said that he just had some catching up to do at the beginning as those who had done it knew for example the structure of the heart and how it worked. However, I echo the above PP who said that it would be difficult to apply for medicine or engineering-they are too different so your DC needs to be sure of what they want to do-otherwise they might not be considered as keen enough for either.