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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Controversial Behaviour Policy changes

366 replies

Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 15:05

I am looking to get some insight into the changes taking places at a number of Free Schools, especially London, that have been making dramatic changes to Behaviour Policy since Michaela Community School made headlines as being the strictest school in Britain:

time.com/5232857/michaela-britains-strictest-school/

metro.co.uk/2017/09/11/britains-strictest-school-bans-pupils-from-looking-out-the-window-and-smirking-6917747/

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/13422769.The_secrets_of_Magna_Academy_s_transformation__Students_who_walk_silently_between_lessons/

I noticed, that the comments at the end of these articles were mostly negative from parents and students in these schools, and don't appear to be in line with the "hard sell" the schools are making it out to be.

The impression is that teachers are asserting control over the difficult and disruptive students at the expense of the rest; the average student is muted in these "silent transitions" to and from classes and expressed feeling unhappy and the environment oppressive and weird.

None of the students have the authority to question the new policy, too afraid of being given 90 minutes detentions on the same day regardless of any commitments they may have (Medical or Sporting...at the expense of either their health missing long awaited NHS appointments or financial loss for missed activities to lower income families, as many students on free school meals) for often arbitrary and minor and low level disruptions such as is listed on many of these schools behaviour policies.

So they are being taught not to learn any assertiveness, question authority at any point, to conform, never to speak out, contest or oppose injustice, and may in fact have long lasting emotional and psychological negative impact on these teen developing minds in the real world, where they may not be able to defend themselves from unfair treatment from employers, or even personal relationships.

I am concerned about how fitting and convenient it is for the staff of schools in managing the delinquents, but how damaging this can potential be for bright and able children to be treated with less freedom than correctional facilities. Mental health and self harm and teen suicides statistics are already depressingly high, and with high pressured expectations and penalised for low level infractions can sabotage a once engaged teen's self esteem. A friend's 14 year old son recently committed suicide. So this really touches a raw nerve.

I've seen how a hostile school environment can crush a student with so much potential too many times.

I can't help but thinK of Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall" with faceless children put through the grinder...sorry for the grim comparison....but I can't shake it.

Is this radical new Behaviour Control in developing adolescent minds a good thing, or setting them up to fail in the real world in order that the schools get "Outstanding" Ofsted reports as inspectors come and see automatons walking silently through schools for fear of punishment and exclusion?

Are any of you in these super strict schools and finding it great or awful?

*If you are a teacher or part of school staff, please indicate in your response, so an understanding of your perspective is made clear.

Thank you

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GrimSqueaker · 18/09/2018 10:20

What makes me profoundly uncomfortable is that you don't see these very very regimented boot camp schools springing up in affluent areas. They spring up, or take over schools in deprived areas - and for me there seems to be a very uncomfortable undercurrent of drilling absolute total obedience into the working classes ready for a lifetime of working without any question or need for a break as they're so attuned to staying in place, eyes forward, do not speak, no arguing back - feels like churning out a generation of robots.

I tried and tried to support DD1 in her primary that tries to go down this route - wanted it to work out as it was our local school and I believe in that... but watching her completely freak out and panic about walking down a corridor when school had long since finished for the day in case she was doing it wrong, and hearing about rules rules rules rules every single day from her and seeing how anxious she was becoming... couldn't do it to her. If the choice for secondary is a school like that, or having to explore other options like home ed (which I don't really want to do for my own kids) - I'll do the home ed option.

Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 10:49

GrimSqueaker I initially posted to hear from parents who had personally experienced this environment and how it affected their kids. I see my DS reacting as your DD. I haven’t seen many posts so far to give me a real sense of what the impact is on the students themselves, as even tigerparent Milkytea20 is more concerned about competing against Singapore and South Korea, who’s students do night school to achieve the results they do globally and also hive exceptionally high student suicide rates, as did Hong Kong, China and other South East Asian Countries that put Academic achievement above all roundness and student mental wellness. I can personally attest to the academic situation in these countries are not preferable or enviable in any way, having lived in all those mentioned and relocated to U.K. to remove my DS from that kind of academic environment. The wealthy from those nations have been shipping their kids to UK boarding schools for ages to ensure they aren’t in those educational systems, that’s a big indicator I think.

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SenecaFalls · 18/09/2018 12:54

They spring up, or take over schools in deprived areas - and for me there seems to be a very uncomfortable undercurrent of drilling absolute total obedience into the working classes ready for a lifetime of working without any question or need for a break as they're so attuned to staying in place, eyes forward, do not speak, no arguing back - feels like churning out a generation of robots.

The whole time I have been reading this thread I keep thinking about a school that has been in the news recently in the US because they have instituted corporal punishment (19 states in the US allow corporal punishment in schools). People defending this have used arguments similar to some on this thread defending these super strict schools in England. Interestingly, study after study in the US has shown that corporal punishment in the US is used disproportionately against children of color.

Surely, we need to try to the extent possible to replicate in schools the humane treatment of people that we strive for in the greater society.

Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 13:38

SenecaFalls That is horrific! Corporal punishment! Do you have a link to this US school? I’ll search it up, but it can be seen that those advocating these strict policies are struggling teachers and schools. Whilst I empathise with them, as does my DS, resorting to these measures and conditioning this mindless obedience in the stiludents, is surely going to have long term damaging impact on their ability to interact with employers, relationships, socity. As LuluKakey1 stated earlier ...Social engineering, not good for the developing adolescents surely

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Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 13:39

Correction: LuluJakey1

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EarlyModernParent · 18/09/2018 14:09

Welcome to Trump's America: civil rights being withdrawn in sneaky increments.

BerriesandLeaves · 18/09/2018 14:26

I saw that in the news too

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45490196

BerriesandLeaves · 18/09/2018 14:29

The school is kindergarten to 9th grade. Not sure what age that is

BerriesandLeaves · 18/09/2018 14:31

Sorry, it says right there in the article i posted what age it is!

Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 14:43

I still can’t wrap my head around it all. I have never understood why an adult being hit by a colleague or employer is assault, but a Youth being hit by another Youth at school (or even elsewhere) or by an adult (say a parent) it’s not criminal act?

I don’t comprehend how forcing adolescents to remain in muted silence unless grated permission in lessons or the only 45 minutes of break they have during the day and remain in seats during their supposed “break” or else face punishment, isn’t considered abudive?

Regardless of trying to control the troublesome students, the rest are going to experience irreparable damage but these measures, as seen in GrimSqeaker DD and I can see beginning to become a problem in the home and real world (outside of school interactions) in my DS

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Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 14:45

Spellcheck is not my friend today....

granted permission
Considered abusive

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Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 16:20

OK, sooo.... things got even weirder today....

My DS came home after his second day of the new behavioural policy changes, and they are apparently implementing new rules and changing them as they go.

One of the new rules was that during class, where no one is allowed to talk or make any noise whatsoever, the students were no longer permitted to raise their hand to ask a question or get attention from the teacher (so silent transition isn't just about reducing the commotion in corridors to get the student to lessons more swiftly without any social interactions in-between, but an entire day of silence unless granted permission to make a sound).

Apparently, as explained to the students by the teachers, this is so the teacher can give a fair chance to all students to answer questions in class, but it effectively silences any students who may have a question for the teacher themselves. It is completely self defeating!

My DS and all the students and it appears even some of the apologetic teachers, are all dumbfounded.

The SLT is imposing this on the teaching staff who are obliged to follow policy.

So my DS can no longer, even in silence, raise his hand, in order to alert the teacher visually, he needs help with a task, or didn't understand something, has a question to put forth on the topic or needs to go to the toilet.

How Absurd is that!!!???

My DS got 2 warnings because he spoke out as he couldn't get his teacher's attention, and a third strike would have resulted in a 24h in school declass exclusion (so 24h no lessons in isolation until 5pm the following day) which would have meant he would have missed his sport's training and loss his place in the ranks for the annual competition. A direct negative impact on his out of school activities and achievements, for attempting to LEARN!

What is going on?

Can this be any more ridiculous?

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noblegiraffe · 18/09/2018 16:25

Have you spoken to the school yet to ask what they’re playing at?

No hands up is a teaching tactic for when the teacher asks the class a question and doesn’t just want to pick the keen beans, it is not supposed to stop a pupil putting their hand up if they need help.

Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 16:29

I have contacted the school in order for them to explain the seated lunch breaks, and they are putting me off, deflecting, sending me emails of these other schools I added the links to in my original post as evidence to support their policy....but my DS literally just informed me of the no hands up rule after he returned from school.

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noblegiraffe · 18/09/2018 16:35

Maybe you should ask for a meeting. Say that you need to meet in person to discuss the adjustments that will need to be made for your DS’s SEND. Pin them down!

Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 16:50

Called school, would't take my call, all SLT prepping for a beginning of term parent's evening for another year group. Told to email my request.

So far they haven't responded to previous questions put in my email, so I may just rock up tomorrow and ask for written policy, and HM meeting in person as well as in email now.

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pointythings · 18/09/2018 16:54

Well, this is bonkers... But I'm sure someone will be along to defend it in a little while.

Meanwhile for the poster upthread who suggested adults in the workplace weren't allowed to do anything other than sit in the canteen during break...

Honestly, what is this country coming to?

Controversial Behaviour Policy changes
Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 17:10

I don't know if I should let me DS go in to school anymore. It's only been 2 days of the drastic policy changes!

DS even told me that the teachers looked embarrassed and said they weren't "trying to turn them into robots", but it was for their safety, and my DS thought to himself at the time and relayed to me when he got home "how will raising my hand to ask the teacher a question politely be a danger to my safety? Or anyone's for that matter."

If I pull him out, DS ends up with no school to go to, we lose! It's a no win scenario, but in all good consciousness, I can't knowingly subject my DS to this kind of environment. The school knows families with no resources can't just lawyer up to put a legal challenge to them the next morning

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dootball · 18/09/2018 17:13

They spring up, or take over schools in deprived areas - and for me there seems to be a very uncomfortable undercurrent of drilling absolute total obedience into the working classes ready for a lifetime of working without any question or need for a break as they're so attuned to staying in place, eyes forward, do not speak, no arguing back - feels like churning out a generation of robots.
Maybe the reason for this isn't a sinister plot but simply that these schools tend to be in poorer areas, and such measures simply aren't needed in more affluent schools.

Will have to wait and see how successful these schools end of being , because if it works , then other schools will start copying very quickly.

pointythings · 18/09/2018 17:18

I still have a real problem with the way good, normal kids are being punished preemptively for the behaviour of the others. I can't see that as acceptable no matter what. Our school has a very mixed catchment - some areas in out town sit in the bottom quartile for social deprivation, i.e. they are very deprived indeed, but they manage without resorting to these methods. It's lazy behaviour management. Same as hitting children is lazy parenting.

The news from the US horrifies me. My native Netherlands abolished corporal punishment in schools in 1920 - and as a society they seem to be coping quite well.

Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 17:25

Maybe the reason for this isn't a sinister plot but simply that these schools tend to be in poorer areas

We're talking Central London, one of the most expensive real estates in the country. So not poorer geographically, but not a private school with astronomical termly fees only the wealthy can afford either.

and such measures simply aren't needed in more affluent schools.

Independent schools certainly do have the resources to be ultra selective, no one but the best behaviour records or academic reports gain entry, plus too many wealthy parents would just hire lawyers the instant they are opposed to policy they felt was damaging to their DC

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IrenetheQuaint · 18/09/2018 17:33

Central London state schools tend to have a real mix of pupil backgrounds, as there are still lots of families living in council accommodation or on housing benefit (and the rich send their kids private).

This is no excuse for these ridiculous policies, though. Is the school part of a big academy chain? Or did it have weak summer results and SLT are panicking?

Chattonnoire · 18/09/2018 17:43

IrenetheQuaint Is the school part of a big academy chain? Or did it have weak summer results and SLT are panicking?

I think it must be the latter.

But I did't realise that's what was happening as a whole at the school, as DS was trying to cope with the disqualification that occurred at his end of year exams.

Frankly I didn't focus much on the school, we shut that episode out, as I tried to give my DS a time out from all things pressured and have a genuine summer break, just a lot of decompressing, made sure he had some fun.

Getting back has been a shock to the system

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MaisyPops · 18/09/2018 17:43

dootball
I don't think it's as simple as that, but a school with terrible whole school behaviour, where staff were called fucking cunts daily and I was blamed for being assaulted by a student (my fault he assaulted me) was in a more deprived area with low levels of educational attainment over the years, the culture in the catchment was 'anyone says anything to you then you smack them / I didn't do no GCSEs and do alright'.
The school had been like that easily for 10+ years (others locally had been like that for 20).
It was taken over by a chain with a more strict and rigid behaviour policy. Not as excessive as some on here but still pretty strict and clear and followed militarily.
Results have improved since. Staff aren't getting assaulted. Children can learn.

I don't like the really extreme policies but some strict and rigid behaviour approaches are exactly what is needed in some schools. (Anyone who's spent 5 hours trying to teach when you've got 11 year olds effing and blinding about who called so and who's boyfriend and how their mam's going to fucking smack child's boyfriend if he breaks up with her whilst getting told from leadership you just need to engage them will know the chaos lack of discipline creates in a school, namely children don't learn anything).

Orchiddingme · 18/09/2018 17:50

I would not like this environment for my child.

One of mine goes to a comp which is fairly strict, compared with say my own experiences, it also has a lot of quite petty rules about uniform, speaking and so on and a very elaborate discipline system of points and detentions which has just been made more strict.

On the positive side, though, and much better than the one described here, they do have social time during lunch and break, a lot of sports and other clubs run by teachers who are very open and enthusiastic. My dd feels safe there and the children are well behaved even coming into school as there are teachers outside the route near the school.

My own school had fewer restrictions but the lunch and breaks were fairly lawless and quite scary for well behaved girls (and boys), so it's better than that.

Here I would think about changing schools- have you explored any of those options, I think railing against the system won't work, they are just implementing with a lack of evidence and will probably reverse it in a year or two but that won't help your son.