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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Controversial Behaviour Policy changes

366 replies

Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 15:05

I am looking to get some insight into the changes taking places at a number of Free Schools, especially London, that have been making dramatic changes to Behaviour Policy since Michaela Community School made headlines as being the strictest school in Britain:

time.com/5232857/michaela-britains-strictest-school/

metro.co.uk/2017/09/11/britains-strictest-school-bans-pupils-from-looking-out-the-window-and-smirking-6917747/

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/13422769.The_secrets_of_Magna_Academy_s_transformation__Students_who_walk_silently_between_lessons/

I noticed, that the comments at the end of these articles were mostly negative from parents and students in these schools, and don't appear to be in line with the "hard sell" the schools are making it out to be.

The impression is that teachers are asserting control over the difficult and disruptive students at the expense of the rest; the average student is muted in these "silent transitions" to and from classes and expressed feeling unhappy and the environment oppressive and weird.

None of the students have the authority to question the new policy, too afraid of being given 90 minutes detentions on the same day regardless of any commitments they may have (Medical or Sporting...at the expense of either their health missing long awaited NHS appointments or financial loss for missed activities to lower income families, as many students on free school meals) for often arbitrary and minor and low level disruptions such as is listed on many of these schools behaviour policies.

So they are being taught not to learn any assertiveness, question authority at any point, to conform, never to speak out, contest or oppose injustice, and may in fact have long lasting emotional and psychological negative impact on these teen developing minds in the real world, where they may not be able to defend themselves from unfair treatment from employers, or even personal relationships.

I am concerned about how fitting and convenient it is for the staff of schools in managing the delinquents, but how damaging this can potential be for bright and able children to be treated with less freedom than correctional facilities. Mental health and self harm and teen suicides statistics are already depressingly high, and with high pressured expectations and penalised for low level infractions can sabotage a once engaged teen's self esteem. A friend's 14 year old son recently committed suicide. So this really touches a raw nerve.

I've seen how a hostile school environment can crush a student with so much potential too many times.

I can't help but thinK of Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall" with faceless children put through the grinder...sorry for the grim comparison....but I can't shake it.

Is this radical new Behaviour Control in developing adolescent minds a good thing, or setting them up to fail in the real world in order that the schools get "Outstanding" Ofsted reports as inspectors come and see automatons walking silently through schools for fear of punishment and exclusion?

Are any of you in these super strict schools and finding it great or awful?

*If you are a teacher or part of school staff, please indicate in your response, so an understanding of your perspective is made clear.

Thank you

OP posts:
Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 15:48

TeenTimesTwo, what if your teens didn't have behavioural problems, but now forced to contend with such a completely restrictive policy that it altered their experience of school life and were unhappy, in order that the school can manage the few disruptive children. Would you stay?

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TeenTimesTwo · 16/09/2018 15:49

Presumably the theory is they decompress after school and at weekends?
And when you look at SLANT, what would you disagree with?

It all depends on implementation, how they encourage/enforce. What they do for ADHD kids etc.

SnuggyBuggy · 16/09/2018 15:49

I don't get what it would prepare you for as workplaces are nothing like that. I think schools should just enforce the rules they already have and actually bother to supervise the kids properly.

TeenTimesTwo · 16/09/2018 15:51

This is it though.

For a 'few disruptive children' you shouldn't need a policy like this. But if say 1/3rd of the children were low level disruptive, you may well need it.

3 or 4 disruptive children in a lesson can disrupt learning for everyone.

Cachailleacha · 16/09/2018 15:55

And when you look at SLANT, what would you disagree with?
For me, I would be unable to track the speaker and listen at the same time.

SnuggyBuggy · 16/09/2018 15:56

Plus you'd look like a nutter. Are you allowed to blink?

Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 15:59

I guess TeenTimesTwo, It's the pain of being static for so long, it would cause physical and psychological distress. If they are being told to SLANT every time they slumped as they were tired of sitting upright at desk for an hour at a time, lesson after lesson, with no movement during break time, then I would call that abuse, as I need to get up and move otherwise my muscles go in spasms. Tracking a teacher entire time is also requiring enormous mental energy for entire day. Leading educational scientist report that concentrated focus can only be for 25 minutes before a short break is needed, up to 4 times, then diffused mode of relaxation to absorb material required, often in a break where you can run about or chat with friends and chill for bit, before focusing intently again.

www.tes.com/news/book-review-learning-how-learn

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TeenTimesTwo · 16/09/2018 15:59

Not being able to track and listen is a good point, and raises how do they deal with kids with specific learning issues. Usually tracking is a sign of concentrating / paying attention isn't it?

How do they deal with kids with special needs of any kind?

TeenTimesTwo · 16/09/2018 16:01

Most lessons though a teacher isn't talking for an hour.

SnuggyBuggy · 16/09/2018 16:02

I could just imagine how a lot of nice normal children would be made very anxious with these rules and get out of proportion punishments for the sort of innocent mistake that would just need a firm reminder.

shonkyklingonmakeup · 16/09/2018 16:03

This was a thoughtful examination of no excuses schools from a coupel of years ago
teacherhead.com/2016/11/20/no-excuses-and-the-pinball-kids/

Cachailleacha · 16/09/2018 16:06

Not being able to track and listen is a good point, and raises how do they deal with kids with specific learning issues. Usually tracking is a sign of concentrating / paying attention isn't it?

I can only pay full attention/concentrate when not looking at the speaker. At university I looked at the board/PowerPoint/my notes. My child is the same, does not officially have SEN. So I don't think different rules for some would work.

Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 16:07

SnuggyBuggy Plus you'd look like a nutter. Are you allowed to blink?

End of Year Exam Invigilating teacher said "no one opens their mouth during exam". My teen opened his mouth (no sound, and not done as a mocking response to teacher's warning), and had his end of year exam disqualified on his best performing subject top as a top performing student in his year group.

My teen couldn't protest, as this would have put him immediately at risk of detention as well, and his end of year report has an instead of A* or 8-9 grade he would have achieved.

My teen lost all respect for the teaching staff, and things like this is going to continue to erode his esteem of authority figures. I can't see how this is positive behavioural policy

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Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 16:09

teacherhead.com/2016/11/20/no-excuses-and-the-pinball-kids/

Great link, thank you

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Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 16:11

Correction:
My teen couldn't protest, as this would have put him immediately at risk of detention as well, and his end of year report has an X instead of A* or 8-9 grade he would have achieved.

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SnuggyBuggy · 16/09/2018 16:11

I could imagine doing that as a reflex and can completely understand why you would lose all respect for the teaching staff.

leafgrass · 16/09/2018 16:12

What would happen if every single pupil, who was allocated a detention, did not turn up to the detentions?

HPFA · 16/09/2018 16:13

You could try reading the Michaela book "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Teachers". Sometimes you realise that they have a point in some areas - other parts will probably make you distinctly queasy.

I think some of the "Britain's strictest school" has been more about self publicity than reality. If you read the book it publishes a lot of nice comments from children which say things like "my teacher really listens to me and helps me". The Ofsted report also spoke of the teaching being "lively and engaging". So I suspect that in reality the school and teachers rely more on the soppy, progressive "building relationships" and "making lessons interesting" than they care to admit!

leafgrass · 16/09/2018 16:14

Or if every child in every class who was issued a ridiculous request went against it?

Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 16:15

They are not permitted to leave the premises, they have 3 minutes to show up to detention, if they are late, they get upscaled to 24h declassed exclusion (isolated in detention room at school for 24h)

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Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 16:15

They are not permitted to leave the premises, they have 3 minutes to show up to detention, if they are late, they get upscaled to 24h declassed exclusion (isolated in detention room at school for 24h)

was in response to leafgrass comment

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leafgrass · 16/09/2018 16:17

It needs all the children and parents to agree to tackle this. The school could not isolate the majority of the children the next day or prevent them from leaving the school.

ReggieKrayDoYouKnowMyName · 16/09/2018 16:18

As a teacher who has taught in very challenging schools and less challenging schools, after being a pupil in a girls grammar where bad shit just didn’t happen, I have a tie on this. If you’d asked me before I became a teacher if I thought this kind of thing was needed I would have said no- the vast majority of kids are good and respectful... because that was all I had ever seen. I reaslise now I was privileged and the girls I went to school with were well supported and aspirational as an accident of their upbringing and situation.

Since being a teacher in less great schools, I see where these rules are coming from- because change is needed in schools with behaviour problems. They’ve been written by heads and leaders in schools where so much of everyone’s time is taken up by the bullshit of low level disruption that they’ve got desperate. They’re under pressure from governors and inspectors to raise attainment in poor achieving, low income and low aspiration communities. It would cost money to increase funding or employ more teachers, so they’re encouraged to work on free solutions. That’s what this is, in my opinion. It’s a wonder no one has seriously floated the idea of corporal punishment again, after all it costs fuck all and I imagine would probably shut a few kids up who otherwise aren’t towing the line.

EarlyModernParent · 16/09/2018 16:20

I have ADD. Rules against looking out of the window in lessons would have been impossible for me. I was well behaved, worked quickly, finished early and then daydreamed silently. Punishing me for than would have been pointless and far more disruptive than leaving me alone.

ReggieKrayDoYouKnowMyName · 16/09/2018 16:21

Take, not tie.