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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Controversial Behaviour Policy changes

366 replies

Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 15:05

I am looking to get some insight into the changes taking places at a number of Free Schools, especially London, that have been making dramatic changes to Behaviour Policy since Michaela Community School made headlines as being the strictest school in Britain:

time.com/5232857/michaela-britains-strictest-school/

metro.co.uk/2017/09/11/britains-strictest-school-bans-pupils-from-looking-out-the-window-and-smirking-6917747/

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/13422769.The_secrets_of_Magna_Academy_s_transformation__Students_who_walk_silently_between_lessons/

I noticed, that the comments at the end of these articles were mostly negative from parents and students in these schools, and don't appear to be in line with the "hard sell" the schools are making it out to be.

The impression is that teachers are asserting control over the difficult and disruptive students at the expense of the rest; the average student is muted in these "silent transitions" to and from classes and expressed feeling unhappy and the environment oppressive and weird.

None of the students have the authority to question the new policy, too afraid of being given 90 minutes detentions on the same day regardless of any commitments they may have (Medical or Sporting...at the expense of either their health missing long awaited NHS appointments or financial loss for missed activities to lower income families, as many students on free school meals) for often arbitrary and minor and low level disruptions such as is listed on many of these schools behaviour policies.

So they are being taught not to learn any assertiveness, question authority at any point, to conform, never to speak out, contest or oppose injustice, and may in fact have long lasting emotional and psychological negative impact on these teen developing minds in the real world, where they may not be able to defend themselves from unfair treatment from employers, or even personal relationships.

I am concerned about how fitting and convenient it is for the staff of schools in managing the delinquents, but how damaging this can potential be for bright and able children to be treated with less freedom than correctional facilities. Mental health and self harm and teen suicides statistics are already depressingly high, and with high pressured expectations and penalised for low level infractions can sabotage a once engaged teen's self esteem. A friend's 14 year old son recently committed suicide. So this really touches a raw nerve.

I've seen how a hostile school environment can crush a student with so much potential too many times.

I can't help but thinK of Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall" with faceless children put through the grinder...sorry for the grim comparison....but I can't shake it.

Is this radical new Behaviour Control in developing adolescent minds a good thing, or setting them up to fail in the real world in order that the schools get "Outstanding" Ofsted reports as inspectors come and see automatons walking silently through schools for fear of punishment and exclusion?

Are any of you in these super strict schools and finding it great or awful?

*If you are a teacher or part of school staff, please indicate in your response, so an understanding of your perspective is made clear.

Thank you

OP posts:
BoneyBackJefferson · 16/09/2018 22:07

It's almost always considered bad management practice in a workplace setting.

It would also be considered bad management in a workplace setting
To allow someone that has been violent to stay in the company
To keep those that persistently under perform on the role
To allow those that sexually abuse people to stay in the workplace
To allow persistent lateness
To let others disrupt the workplace at the expensive of the company and other workers.
To keep employing someone that persistently bad mouths other workers
That is just a few

So if we are going to compare apples and oranges lets apply all of the correct good business management practice to all. and get rid of those that break the rules.

But then isn't that the complaint?

Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 23:02

Boney

Do you think it is possible that the same expectations for civility amongst adolescents be imposed as would in the workplace.

I know teens take on jobs and unacceptable behaviour is not acceptable. Teen loses job.

Can this not be applied in the school environment?

Workplace institutions don’t tolerate all you’ve mentioned above, but why should minors? Why aren’t they reported officially for violent behaviour as would an adult, and consequences would be to remove said aggressor for victim safety. Instead of suspensions and it all starts over. Perpetrator and victime in the same building day in day out no consequences that really matter

OP posts:
Chattonnoire · 16/09/2018 23:06

Pretty tired..GTG catch up with y’all, up in morn. GNight__

OP posts:
BoneyBackJefferson · 16/09/2018 23:15

Chattonnoire

I don't think that minors should have to put up with any of the points that I wrote, but they do because the system requires so much paperwork and evidence to support a permanent exclusion that many children suffer before the pupils causing the issues can be taken out of this school.

Lets not forget that even if they are excluded form one school they move to another, and the cycle begins again because the child has a right to an education (I don't disagree with this) but so do all the other children.

PleaseTryAnotherUsername · 17/09/2018 00:03

I don't see how opening their mouth as a reflex during an exam can be considered a disruption for anyone, even a low level one.

This is utterly ridiculous.

Chattonnoire · 17/09/2018 08:43

Boney I am questioning why these "problem" students (the ones consistently disruptive and getting excluded), are not obliged to go to a school meant for taking these issues, rather than shuffled onto another school to repeat the cycle?

because the child has a right to an education this should not be at the expense of all other children however, and just like offender go to detention centres, if these students are being excluded for unacceptable and often violent behaviour, they school go to a strict remedial school, such as what they appear to be imposing on the general student population at the moment?

I've heard of these types of schools, are they not to go to solution atm?

OP posts:
Chattonnoire · 17/09/2018 08:45

Spellcheck error:

are not obliged to go to a school meant for taking these issues

are not obliged to go to a school meant for takling these issues

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 17/09/2018 09:13

This isn’t just about violent pupils though, is it?

These rules are where someone has looked at the question “why do pupils come to school” and the answer “to get a good education and excellent academic results” as a starting point. The behaviour policy is designed to maximise the chance of that happening.

If kids are in class SLANTing, then they are not sat with their feet on the chair next to them, arms folded, dozing off. They are not stealing the person behind them’s pencil case or sawing a rubber with a ruler.

If they are walking silently and briskly through the corridor then they are not hanging around chatting, stealing their friend’s tie, having a scuffle or just pissing around, they will get to their next lesson on time.

You don’t like silent corridors? Ok, you have chatty corridors to the detriment of their education. Don’t like SLANTing? You have off-task kids to the detriment of their education.

I definitely don’t work in a super-strict school and I don’t think I could, but I do have some sympathy for what they are trying to achieve. At my school a huge amount of potential learning time is lost because we aren’t as clear about these behaviours.

Chattonnoire · 17/09/2018 09:17

PleaseTryAnotherUsername

The teacher, (Boney my teen confirmed it was definitely a teacher from another class, not one of his regular ones from the year) was struggling with controlling his temper, he has previously demonstrated very extreme emotional reactions at the school, so my teen assumes that he snapped and took the involuntary open mouth as a mocking gesture (as in "I just said the next student to open their mouth will be disqualified, and you are taunting me with opening your mouth").... when I contacted the school for an explanation, the school avoided all my correspondences and insistent calls for 2 weeks, leaving my distraught teen without a definitive status on his end of year exam or how it would impact him going forward into GCSEs.

This had such an impact, that my son could not return to school to do any more end of year exams (he just broke down), as he began to have panic attacks, and spiral into full blown depression. He couldn't breath or leave the house.

Having his strongest subject disqualified set off a mental crisis.The most unfortunate part was how the school dragged the situation out for 2 weeks...

Ended with being told he should learn from the experience but go on and keep up with his academic excellence as he has done so far.

My teen ended up being unable to continue all his favourite extra-curricular activities, sports, music, language, all the things he enjoyed most. Just stopped all of it and I'm still trying to help him re-engage with the activities he felt so good about and lifted his self esteem.

Sports is back on, which is great, as that's a big one for physical and mental health, so we are slowly recovering from that incident only to return back to the school and already the environment has drastically changed with the new zero tolerance behaviour policy, which was really unexpected.

OP posts:
MilkyTea20 · 17/09/2018 14:49

DS goes to a high-performing school with very strict rules. He's not allowed to speak at any time during the school day except break and lunch unless given permission. Students are expected to work hard both in and out of school- DS in Y11 has up to 4 hours a night of homework and revision.

They also have a very strict uniform policy- blazer, jumper, shirt, tie, black trousers and smart black school shoes and socks. They have daily uniform checks and can be given same day detentions for having a top button undone or tie not covering top button, shirt not tucked in or even shoes not being polished. He's only allowed to remove his blazer(and jumper in winter term)when invited to in class by the teacher, which only happens in the height of summer, and has to wear both at all other times.

I think it's great. There are far too many schools in the UK now where very little learning takes place and teachers simply practice crowd control. Yes, some of the policies at DS's school are perhaps overly strict, but if you give DC an inch they'll take a mile. If the UK is ever to catch up with the highest performing nations like South Korea and Singapore, we need more schools like DS's.

PleaseTryAnotherUsername · 17/09/2018 15:37

@MilkyTea20 I don't believe so.

I attended schools in mainland Europe where things are wayyyy more relaxed than in the U.K. No uniform, no detentions, no overly strict rules. I (and many others) managed to be successful academically and in chosen career. I work here in a highly skilled job now. Well, I don't have SN but with my personality a similar environment would have scarred me for life.

I love living here but fully disagree with how school is conceived. If anything like OP's son happens in the future to little DS, I'm ready to make Brexiteers happy, pack and go back.

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2018 16:22

Thing is, it’s all very well saying ‘schools in Europe are more relaxed and it was ok’ but these schools will also have been more relaxed in the past and it wasn’t ok.

These super-strict schools aren’t springing up for no reason at all. They’re springing up because of issues of poor behaviour meaning pupils aren’t getting a good education and teachers are quitting.

SnuggyBuggy · 17/09/2018 16:27

I guess the question is why should nice normal kids have to be educated under such a regime because of the badly behaved ones? Why can't schools just properly clamp down on actual bad behaviour, violence and bullying?

Oblomov18 · 17/09/2018 16:32

I'm not surprised by this. It just seems to be yet another thing that schools implement 'on the sly' hoping that parents won't notice.

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2018 16:32

Because the behaviour that most teachers complain about and find the most tiresome is low-level disruption.

Chattonnoire · 17/09/2018 16:43

So my teen came home today saying that the biggest feature of the policy change he will struggle with is that the entire lunch break he must remain at his canteen seat after a while morning of classes. That being unable to shift and move or connect with friends during break other than those directly seated next to him is something he is really unhappy about and finding physically painful to endure. The task of finding the will to go on to focused lessons the remaining afternoon becomes exceptionally difficult, feeling stiff and disgruntled.

Other aspects of the policy aren’t great, but this one is what he found the hardest to deal with today

OP posts:
Chattonnoire · 17/09/2018 16:46

Spellcheck error:

his canteen seat after a whole morning of classes

OP posts:
SnuggyBuggy · 17/09/2018 16:47

So put the kids causing the disruption in detention or exclusion. Why treat all the kids like they have done something wrong?

Chattonnoire · 17/09/2018 16:48

Morning break: 15 minutes in canteeen
Lunch break: 30 minutes in canteen at seat entire lunch break

No playground, no outdoor space, no gym access, no rooftop sports pitch access. PE once a week.

OP posts:
TeenTimesTwo · 17/09/2018 16:52

OP. I don't understand something. Given that your son broke down regarding the end of year exam, why is he back at the same school? Is it that you can't find a different school anywhere? Have you appealed at all? For a DC to have suffered such an extreme reaction to having the result of one internal exam nullified is surely a good reason not to return?

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2018 16:58

he must remain at his canteen seat

Odd, a lot of schools don’t have enough space for the whole school to sit in the canteen at once and the aim is to get them out as quickly as possible.

Are you saying they have no free time at lunch to play sports/do clubs etc?

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2018 17:02

So put the kids causing the disruption in detention or exclusion

That’s what these schools are doing. They’ve set the bar for what is considered disruption higher than other schools, sure.

OP’s school seems to have some weird extra rules, I think even at Michaela when they’ve finished their daily lunch poetry chant they’re allowed off to play ping-pong and stuff.

TeenTimesTwo · 17/09/2018 17:07

Michaela's 'family lunch' sounds very much like lunches at my boarding school. The days you were on the house mistress's table were torture as you were expected to 'make conversation' and the older girls shouted at you afterwards if you hadn't done your fair share of this.
We used to check the rota - and oh the relief when you saw you were landing there on a Tuesday - her day off. But it did make us good at conversational starters. Sorry. Off topic somewhat.

SnuggyBuggy · 17/09/2018 17:09

How the hell is a glance out of the window or a hello to someone in the corridor disruption? No work place would have twatty rules like that.

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2018 17:11

Because 30 kids looking out of the window and having social conversations in the corridor rapidly becomes a problem.