Will not doing A'levels hinder DS long term?

[MrsJamieFraser2]

My son received his GCSE results last week, and whilst he did very well, he didn't do well enough to get back into the 6th form at his selective grammar school.

He's adamant he's not doing any further education, i.e. not joining another school or college. He's very bright, just lazy! He's looking at apprenticeships, but I feel he will ultimately do better if he had a'levels. Even going into an apprenticeship at 18 and not going to university.

I'm torn between him going into an apprenticeship now and he perhaps doesn't achieve his full potential, or trying to speak to the school again regarding mitigating circumstances which didn't help him over the last 9 months.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Hi. My son has just completed his GCSE's. He had applied to do apprenticeships in Plumbing and Joinery as well as a few BTEC type courses. He prefers subjects which are a bit more "hands on" rather than purely academic ones so he knew fairly early on that A levels were not for him. I think apprenticeships are great for some kids but it depends a lot on the personality of your child - mine realised that he didn't like the idea of being on a building site 3-4 days a week with a lot of 30 and 40 year old men! My son only turned 16 as he was doing the actual exams and realised he wasn't quite mature enough to deal with the "real world". He has decided to do the BTEC instead as he realised that it allowed him to have a combination of classroom based work and some work experience. I don't feel that he is missing out by not doing A levels.

I come from a very academic background.

DD1 did a BTEC and is now doing an apprenticeship. DD2 is likely to do likewise.

I think doing A levels keeps more options open provided the DC is capable and willing to work. It seems to me that generally you need to be getting 6s or higher at least in the A level subjects, and to work hard, to succeed. If either aren't there then maybe another option is better? D & E grades at a level aren't going to be much help going forward, whereas Distinctions in a BTEC or the work experience + qualification via apprenticeship could be better.

These days there are access courses etc available if he changes his mind.

On the other hand, you aren't indicating he is making a positive choice / has a burning desire for a particular route? DD at 18 found working full time a big shock to her system, and she was able to get to work by car so didn't need to mess about with public transport.

Is he throwing his toys out of the pram because he didn't qualify for the school 6th form, of is he really fed up with school? Did he look at all at 6th form colleges which are more 'uni' like in comparison?

It sounds to me as if he is rather shocked at not getting into the sixth form of his current school and as if he isn't really considering alternatives.
I don't really think there are extenuating circumstances as this usually means serious illness or bereavement rather than not working hard enough!
Am a bit surprised that the school has provided so little support though - my dds school had teachers on hand to advise pupils who hadn't met their A level offers and help with alternative courses.
It's either A levels elsewhere - plenty of pupils change schools at this stage so he doesn't need to feel embarrassed about moving if this is the issue!
There are also level 3 BTECs which are more vocational than A levels if the issue is that he doesn't really like exams this may be a good alternative.
He could try apprenticeships (level 3 ones) but the first question he may be asked is why he wants to take this route rather than A levels which may be a question he can't really answer at the moment!

The school has offered no support!

I don't think it's a case of throwing toys out of his pram, just a reluctance to have to immerse himself in other groups of people and make new friends. A lack of confidence maybe. He got all 4-6...I'm frustrated because he could have done better if he had applied himself.

It seems that you're all saying that he needs more of a vocational route...I do think he would struggle with the pace of teaching at his current school but I'm just concerned that going straight into full time work will be a huge shock!

What sort of career is he interested in? Maybe 'we' could suggest something?

He's amazing at writing. He is passionate about Sport and writes features for various online sports sites. I was amazed when I read his first piece and thought he'd plagiarised it bless him!

He's never been big into reading so I was surprised he is as good as he is.

Ideally that would be ideal for him. I just had a quick look at BTECs and there is a sports and exercise science one which he could do, I just wish he'd consider something in the middle and not just dismiss and form of further education. But it's probably because it's unknown to him? All he's known is his school for the last 5 years and the primary school up the road for the 7 years prior to that!

What A levels was he going to do?
Did you visit any other places or was it assumed he'd stay where he was?

I don't know what your DS needs, but he does need to do something now doesn't he?

Talk to him about the apprenticeships he's applying for, see if any family friends can help "interview" him, as it sounds as if some of them are quite competitive. If he was happy to continue at school had he been in a position to do so, maybe he needs to look at other school/college options and/or course options he hadn't previously considered - they don't have to be A levels.

I know it's changed a bit but when I did A-levels (1987) there was a very high failure rate, even though far less students stayed at school past 16, something like over a third of those who did failed. Some of those may have passed one or two but there must have been a lot who came out after 2 years without qualifications. Better to think a bit more about choosing.

www.notgoingtouni.co.uk/sector/journalism ?

He could do the Sports BTec and English + Media A-Levels with the hope of going onto Journalism maybe?

He was going to do Psychology, Business and PE at A'level.

I think we need to go and have a look round the local colleges

@elkiedee That's what his head said. Leaving now and doing something that works for him as opposed to struggling for 2 years in a very academic school and potentially failing.

He's applying for lots of apprenticeships but I think he's more capable than what they are looking for. Although he did apply for a great one at Mercedes F1 which also involved writing news articles.

How does it work regarding BTECs? Do they pick 3? Can they combine with A'levels?

If he can get an apprenticeship then that might be the best thing for him, my worry would be that he won't find a suitable apprenticeship. Could you get him to decide what course to apply for to do until he gets the right job?

@OddBoots Exactly! He's just applying for anything and everything and getting ratty with me when I suggest an alternative. I'm happy for him to go down that route if it's right for him. He applied for one which is a spare parts coordinator in a local car dealership?

BTECs can be 'equivalent' to 1, 2 or 3 A levels (level 3: Certificate, Diploma, Extended Diploma respectively)
Some colleges will offer 1 A level equivalent to do along side A levels, others only the 2 or 3 A level equivalent.
Our 2 local 'Academic' 6th forms only offer a small range of BTECs, the new have one that only offers BTECs no A levels, one which offers a range of both, and one which offers BTECs in Agricultural and associated. We have a good range as schools don't got to A level round here.

It is likely that your highly selective grammar hasn't even offered some suitable A levels that he could find elsewhere. I think you need to engage him in looking at all the options pretty fast (or look for him and present him with ideas). I like the suggestions made by RSTera.

I'm in NI so our system may be different but the BTEC my son is doing is a full-time course at our local college. It is made of up numerous modules - some compulsory and some he can select depending on his own personal interests. This course is considered to be the equivalent to 3 A levels. At the end of two years he will have a qualification which will allow him to go to university, if he chooses. Most university courses allow BTECs as an entrance route.

With apprenticeships you really need to look at the qualification he gets. Some are highly respected, some are more 'micky mouse'.

If you do well enough at BTECs you can go down the university route, but these will, I think, usually be linked strongly to the BTEC, or at places only requiring UCAS points rather than A level grades. This is why I said upthread that A levels done well keep more options open.

OP it is easier for your son to start a BTEC / A levels then drop out and do an apprenticeship, than it is to do it the other way around (as you can't start A levels mid year). If he is scatter-gunning you need to help him focus on his strengths and interests.

@TeenTimesTwo Scattergunning is exactly what he is doing!!

I'm going to look at BTECs now and see what the local college offers.

An example of what could be available - www.ucasprogress.com/course/2379128/journalism-btec-extended-diploma-level-3

He might need to be willing to travel. It is not unusual in my area for teens to travel for 60mins+ to get to the most suitable college.

Sixth form colleges (if there are any near you) do allow students to take a mix of BTEC and A levels. So you could do standard Sports BTEC plus A level business or standard Business BTEC and A level PE for example.
There are several options:
The subsidiary diploma which is equivalent to one A level
The standard diploma equivalent to 2 A levels and the Extended Diploma equivalent to 3 A levels.
Hope that helps.

Subsidiary diploma, that's it. Not certificate. Thought it didn't sound right.

any job he will do requires trainings, studying and constant learning. no getting away from that.

imo he should do a-levels/ebac.
it's really difficult (and expensive) to do later.

@MrsJamieFraser2

I was very academic in school, went to university, went into a scientific field... And then decided to scrap it all to become a jeweller. I had done silvermsithing classes for fun, so I trained up more and started my own business. It took time; years before I could make it my full time job which supported my family. But that's what it is now.

I could have skipped straight to it if I'd been brave enough to tell my parents I wanted to work in the arts rather than in sciences.

If he truly want something else then support him in it. But if he's just choosing a random trade to avoid making a tough decision right now then you need to get him to see the bigger picture. If writing is his goal, then he will need to get a degree and experience.

Hi.. this is almost the position both my DS have been in. Both went to a selective grammar and had poor gcse results. DS1 managed to get into the 6th form but failed AS levels and left. He got an engineering apprenticeship which had day release for a btec. He hated the apprenticeship as was very poorly organised. But eventually saw it as a means to an end. After 3 years he left with a btec and went to university to study a different subject. He is loving university life!
DS 2 failed to get into 6th form at the grammar ( who,incidentally were useless and uninterested in any support or help). He has just finished the first year of an extended btec apparently equivalent to 3 A levels. Unfortunately he is very immature and not interested so I have no idea how the next year will go.
After gcse neither of my boys knew what they wanted to do. It took the older lad 4 years to get to uni but that was right for him.
So we have experience of apprenticeship and full time btec. A levels aren't necessarily the right way for all especially if they don't want to put the work in.
My only advice is to choose the apprenticeship wisely if that's the way you go. There are many that are just cheap labour with poor day release courses.