Will not doing A'levels hinder DS long term?

[MrsJamieFraser2]

My son received his GCSE results last week, and whilst he did very well, he didn't do well enough to get back into the 6th form at his selective grammar school.

He's adamant he's not doing any further education, i.e. not joining another school or college. He's very bright, just lazy! He's looking at apprenticeships, but I feel he will ultimately do better if he had a'levels. Even going into an apprenticeship at 18 and not going to university.

I'm torn between him going into an apprenticeship now and he perhaps doesn't achieve his full potential, or trying to speak to the school again regarding mitigating circumstances which didn't help him over the last 9 months.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Well if it’s a grammar school, that’s what you would expect. No doubt other schools would be less demanding. Sporty types at grammar schools are frequently indulged with colours and recognition but, at the end of the day, they won’t want non triers on the academic front, whatever the team spirit and good qualities displayed on the sports field.

If he goes to college now, he has more options than if he leaves it for a couple of years. Funding at 16-19 is generous so there will be some great courses he can do, eg the sports Btec mentioned above may well be much more enjoyable than PE A-level. Btecs reward consistent work rather than last - minute cramming and they do reduce exam stress, if he's lost confidence. If he won't be persuaded to go now, there is still entitlement to free education at 19-23 if you don't have the equivalent of 2 full A-levels, but the courses open to you are more restricted and funding is only up to the 2 A-level equivalent, rather than 3 or 4 at 16-19.

You can try to use the 'Raising the participation age' legislation to persuade him that young people are supposed to be in education or training until age 18. However, in fact this legislation has no teeth and there are no penalties on either the young person or employer if they take a regular job.

BubblesBuddy, think you're missing my point, which is more related to this young man's future than the grammar school. I think if most young people are meant to continue in education, then all of those who will do so, or want to do so, need opportunities with every chance to come out well. In too many places there is a lot of competition to be top of the league tables, and not much for a wider offer.

I think OP's DS needs to be encouraged to think of his own good points and consider real range of options open to him. To get an apprenticeship or any work he will probably face interviews. But perhaps he should look at colleges or schools which offer him a chance to continue playing football as well as course options which relate to his interest.

If this were my DS, I would want him to find the right thing for him in the end, but I would be concerned if he was feeling that he can't do what he expected and planned to do and not looking at all options including educational choices.

My point is, he has shown commitment here which is a positive thing if he has go and sell himself to employers or education providers. It's also something which could be a source of encouragement. boosting self-esteem. And it could be a reason to consider continuing in education, as students have particular opportunities to do sport, though I see he already does non school sport too.

I'd say if he can get an apprenticeship do that

A friend's son did badly at A Levels and now can't get onto an apprenticeship as he has a 'full level 3 qualification'.

Education is something you can go back to at any time.

Hi All,

Well I give up! He knows best apparently and I've been told to stop bringing it up. It's a thankless task being a Mum sometimes!

Thank you all for the brilliant advice, it's very much appreciated.

Op, my dh went to a highly regarded private school. Was asked not to sit certain gcse's, got few a*'s, rest a's. Then, unbelievably, even though his parents were still paying £££ he was told he wouldn't be suitable for a levels. So he went along to the tech college, and they told him he'd be underperforming if he went there. He's followed his instincts and gained a great career doing exactly what he wanted.

What do you think?? Do you think he is capable if interested? There's some great apprenticeship out there but equally, english lit, business/psychology/sociology and sports science A levels would serve him well for a sports journalism degree, especially if he can get a touch of work experience at a local paper.

OP- you're not allowed to give up!!!!!! You can despair, encourage, cajole, and support... but you can't give up.
Every few months, I say I Give Up and really, really, really, really mean it with my DS (16). But somehow you just keep on keeping on with them...

My DS3 got mediocre GCSEs then gave up school just before AS exams. He has worked since leaving school but only in boring minimum wage jobs. He has found the lack of A levels has shut many doors. Yet he had huge potential (also a lazy git).
DS1 dropped out of uni but took an apprenticeship and is doing well. DS2 didn't finish uni but has had no trouble finding work despite SENs.
University isn't essential but some qualification post 16 is vital.

Perhaps an apprenticeship would be good for him? My daughter left school before A levels to start an apprenticeship (against my advice) and qualified successfully. 12 years later she has changed tack, done an access course and is about to start a degree. If he doesn’t want to do A levels now, it’s not irrevocable

OP - what's the plan for September then? Tell him that you'll stop when he's sorted out his next step.

sorry to be dim (my kids are younger) but I thought 4-6s at GCSE were old Cs and Bs. Since when were these not good enough to stay on and do A-Levels? I only got 1 A at GCSE (many year ago admittedly) and the rest were Bs and Cs but I managed to get 3 A Levels and a good degree. Do they really have to get 7s and over to be allowed to do A-Levels?

The rates of success of people going on to A levels with Bs and Cs wasn't generally great (grade C-E at A level).

Which makes sense, if you are only getting C equivalent (4 and the low 5s) at GCSE, are you really going to be up for the higher academic thinking / writing at A level?

Many places allowed with an old B but if it was a 'just scraped a B' (new 5) success wasn't so easy as a 'just missed an A' (new 6).

I think that wanting an average grade score of around 6 from best 8 isn't too unreasonable, except maybe for a skewed profile of great at maths/science but rubbish at writing or the other way around.

@ifIonlyknew The OP's son went to a grammar school. They only allow the kids with top grades to stay so they can claim high A-level results a couple of years later. (They can ask you to leave before A-level exams if your AS results are too low)

Most schools have a minimum requirement for A-levels that aren't as high as grammar schools. While some kids could do better in A level than GCSE, it's unusual. Some kids are better looking at other qualifications like BTECS or doing an apprenticeship before university.

He could always do a foundation degree course if he decides on a different route after his BTEC.

ah rainingcatsanddog I had missed it was a grammar school. I know A-Levels aren't for everyone but I am just shocked to see that now Bs and Cs are seen as not good enough to go on to A-Levels. People have managed to get decent A-levels for many years with Bs and Cs at GCSE.

quite pleased my kids have decided against trying for grammar school (and grammars aren't the norm where we are)

I am going to take the hard line here because I do believe it will limit his opportunities if he does not go the A levels route. He seems capable enough OP, and he would be putting a ceiling to his CV and professional career that he will have to explain for the rest of his life. Now this may or may not be relevant but he does not know whether he wants to become a jeweller or a lawyer yet, so it is now all about not shutting down options too early. Sorry OP (and everyone else) but if you believe he is capable (having been at a Grammar school too), I would do anything possible for him to find a way to join another place and do his A levels. Now I must apologise in advance too as I do not have ideas about how to go about it, not a mother of a teenager yet but others may have good tips about how to present it to him.
I know someone very close to me who got Ds and Es for A levels, but then still went on to build a very successful, stable and normal career eventually, after going to university (not Oxbridge or anything near obviously). I do not think this would have happened if he had changed course away from A levels. The biggest challenge perhaps is to get over the sense of failure and keep going - I would encourage him to keep going, GCSEs is only one step in a very long haul and getting 4-6 grades is not a reason to give up the A levels?

@rainingcatsanddog I've really got no idea. He's away with his Dad at the moment who is as much use as a chocolate teapot where education is concerned.

I've been looking at an alternative school where he would probably know some other students. I'm going to have to work on him when he gets back. I completely agree with you regarding the grammar school...they want their star pupils to do well, focus on them and kick out the others.

@Rookiemummy2018 You are completely right, I have said all this to him and really feel he should be doing them, albeit in a less competitive environment which builds his confidence. But he's stubborn and steadfast. I'm hoping that if nothing materialises apprenticeship wise whilst he's away that will give me more leverage to discuss a'levels when he gets home. But then the new term will be beginning! Oh it's such a mess. There's no way he would start not on the first day.

When ds1 performed worse than he expected in GCSEs, it took a while for him to snap out of things and accept going to a new school as he was clearly shocked by it all. His Dad (my ex) got involved in his education for the first time ever and organized an interview and enrolled him at a new school. Ds1 doesn't have specific ambitions so quickly realized that apprenticeships weren't for him as he'd need to choose a speciality.

@rainingcatsanddog We don't get much time though do we? I shouldn't have agreed for him to go away now but I really thought he would have done enough to get back in

There is one apprenticeship which sounds good on paper but I'm just concerned he'll have to outdo himself there in order to get to a similar position has he done a'levels.

MrsJamesFrasier2 perhaps worth showing him this
www.ucfb.com/undergraduate-degrees/multi-media-sports-journalism-ba-hons/
I don't know how good it is or the other courses they do but if it excites him he might reconsider trying BTECs or even A levels.

TeenTimesTwo, the grade relationship between GCSE and A level isn't that straightforward - some students flourish at a later level than others. My only A at A level was in the subject I got a B at O level for, History. My little sister got a First - I'm sure that wasn't predicted from her GCSEs and I don't think she got all As at A level either. In an ideal system it would be easier to get financial support if you return to education after working or doing something else or even doing nothing at all, and then returning to work with qualifications - to study when you're ready. But as it is, the system means that DCs need to work out a plan at around 16, whether they're ready or not, and whatever their grades are.

TeenTimesTwo, the grade relationship between GCSE and A level isn't that straightforward - some students flourish at a later level than others. My only A at A level was in the subject I got a B at O level for, History. My little sister got a First - I'm sure that wasn't predicted from her GCSEs and I don't think she got all As at A level either. In an ideal system it would be easier to get financial support if you return to education after working or doing something else or even doing nothing at all, and then returning to work with qualifications - to study when you're ready. But as it is, the system means that DCs need to work out a plan at around 16, whether they're ready or not, and whatever their grades are.

The question is now for OP's DC and others in the same position to find the best way to make use of the next couple of years to learn and develop, in full time education or otherwise. It's ridiculous to write off 6s and 4s or Bs and Cs, even more so in this guinea pig year when preparation for the new exams needed so much more guesswork than in other years. This mum wants advice to help her DS find a way forward, who doesn't want that when they post questions here?

Arrrrggghhh sorry for double post previously, don't know what I did there!

OP I guess he is now also revelling in the system after the results - he must understand that he must work with the system now to gain his freedom later.... to challenge him to be smart enough to put some work and follow the rules, because that will favour him later. He is so young and not sure how many teenagers understand the concept but he is about at the age when they begin to understand.... if you know what I mean? He can be whatever he wants to be, but there are some blocks he needs to build first and only he will benefit from having that foundation, not others (despite having to abide by the "system" I assume he is naturally revelling against)

I know the relationship between GCSEs and A levels isn't direct, but extenuating circumstances aside it is a pretty good guide.

If the OP's DC is lazy, what is there to indicate he will work harder at 6th form when for a levels so much depends on self driven, independent work?
(Whereas the continuous assessment for of BTECs will push a more lazy student more regularly).

There are no certainties. The DC may get his act together for A levels. or he may idle away 2 years and fail the lot. Who knows? The BTEC route is likely to be less risky but good grades at A levels would be more flexible.