The DfE needs to stop the farce of compulsory Maths and English GCSE resits

[noblegiraffe]

Another year, another 124,560 students failing their GCSE maths resit and 99672 students failing their GCSE English resit.

Colleges have been saying for years that this government policy is a failure, that students are entered into cycle of resits and failures that does nothing to boost their confidence or enhance their qualifications.

If you get a 3 in maths or English GCSE you have to resit GCSE. If you get a 2 or below, you can take other qualifications like functional maths instead.

The government argues that GCSE is the key to opening doors and as many students as possible should be resitting to get that opportunity. But wouldn’t a qualification that they are actually likely to pass be better?

The resit pass rate for English dropped from 35.5% to 33.1% this year and for maths dropped from 37% to 22.7%. This is not an improving picture!

www.tes.com/news/gcse-results-english-and-maths-pass-rates-drops

My daughter's school is in a bit of an awkward position as although they are private they receive government funding for many of their children through the MDS and DaaDa schemes. I know that they did enter one student this year for the old Single Combined Science rather than Double (it may have been an IGCSE) but I think that even that option is being removed & they are required to enter diploma/A level students for Maths & English GCSE if they havn't got Grade 4.

They do care about league tables in that parents sending their children there often compare results because they are concerned about educational standards at vocational school but it does seem that they have been trying to do the best for individual students within those contraints. They were not included on Progress 8 tables last year because of the size of cohort and the fact that several enter without having done SATS incuding several international students.

We're in the situation where my child got enough grades to do level 2 at college but because they got a 2 in english language and maths, we have no idea what their future holds next month until they have an interview at the college they wanted to go to. They don't do lower than level 2 courses so no idea if they'll get a place or whether we will have to apply to other colleges. My child is perfectly able to write (as demonstrated in their coursework) but just not in exam conditions, as their GCSE results demonstrated.

Thanks, I'll keep trying to suggest that her school consider a functional skills qualification alongside the foundation GCSE, as at least if she had that done, she might have a better chance of getting into a more academic sixth form to finish A-levels in her other subjects.

There still seems to be some sort of single science option available, as my dyscalculic pupil is apparently being entered for it (currently going in to year 10). But it is likely iGCSE, and it is also a private school. At least I hope they haven't removed the option and she discovers too late that she has to do double!

Grammy78 This is exactly what I am trying to say.

In the past if you wanted to do a course at college it didn't matter what grade you got in English and Maths you could progress.

Equally as long as you had passed your O Levels you could go on to A Levels then uni etc

The way it is looked at now is if you don't get a level 4 in your GCSE Maths and English you are too thick to bother with.

Even on here posters are making a correlation between those who don't pass E &M with those with the bottom 35% IQ. The only problem with this analysis is the people who are not passing have not necessarily got a low IQ. Which means that some of those with low IQs are progressing to college and the brighter ones are being stopped.

Maths result is in and it’s fail number 3. Thank goodness her university place isn’t conditional on it or would be currently right up shit creek.

Yes I probably am. I think I will leave this thread now. I have come to realise, more and more, that mumsnet education threads of all colours isn't for the likes of me. It is only really bothered with middle class high flyers.
Try discussing anything else and it isn't interested. As a dad of 2 middle and low achievers I have nothing to add.
Actually it just makes you depressed.

Exactly, the teaching profession and the loud crowd on MN does not give a dam about those in 35%, whether they smart, with potential, with SEN or not. This is precisely because it makes those in 65% to feel warm inside.

Maisy, you are so aggressive precisely because there is nothing but ideology and snobbery behind your points. You state yourself that grades 1-3 are not passes for Level 2, the latter being THE target qualification after secondary school at 16, and this is why employers and FE requires a pass in it. Whatever you call it, employers are going to request a pass in a qualification designed to be a pass at 16. Currently GCSE are shorthand for such qualifications. Again, no matter how you label or position it, employers and society are going to request a pass in the qualification that shows that DC were not wasting time at school for 12 years and are adequately prepared for life at 16.

This is why GCSE should have a floor of grade 4 and teachers from year 7, preferably from Reception should teach accordingly over the long term. Currently they simply push what they screw ups from the conveyor belt, ad blame it on the children.

It is not an acceptable situation that after 12 years of compulsory universal education 35% are supposed to fail by design and do not have basic skills required by employers. The education system is supposed to serve all voters and all citizens.

Imagine if schools were made to refund money for teaching children who do not a get 4 at GCSE, teachers would quickly figure out how to teach those children. Average intellectual ability is 'smart enough' by definition.

Pupils should be able to go to college and do their courses alongside maths and English resits - is that not happening?

Sorry to hear that Post, that must be terribly dispiriting. Good to know she can still go to uni.

cake you’re talking like individual schools have a target of 65% of kids to pass and teachers identify those 65% then stick the rest in a cupboard for their entire school career.

It is incredibly important to schools how many students get 4+ in English and maths. They’re the headline figure. Schools work their arses off to get kids over the magic boundary.

And will you stop claiming that teachers don’t give a toss about the 35%, it’s total bollocks.

Pupils should be able to go to college and do their courses alongside maths and English resits - is that not happening?

I am advocating that students should be able to do their chosen subjects alongside studying Maths/English.

If this isn't happening the Government needs to step in, like they did with the Grammar Schools that were effectively expelling pupils after year 12! This for not acquiring a schools self imposed requirement for year 13 study !

Noble, maybe it is a matter of semantics, but of course learning styles do exist. ASD is an obvious example, Dyslexia is another. All those example given upthread about people succeeding in spite of the system are about perfectly capable people with uneven, spiky cognitive profile. They are at a disadvantage in the prevailing teaching style that drags them down based on their weakest link. With different teaching methods those people would thrive.

And of course their is a ceiling. It is called sets and flightpath.

Thanks Noble. You were very helpful when she was struggling in year 11, I had a different user name then.

She’s taken it on the chin and is pleased as she’s just landed a Skype teaching job at £13 an hour teaching English to Chinese children that she can do along side her degree plus they pay for a Tesol course. Her friend’s sister has been doing it for a bit and she’s really pleased she got it (as am I!).

I am advocating that students should be able to do their chosen subjects alongside studying Maths/English.

But colleges do, don’t they? Unless it’s a course that has a specific maths/English requirement.

Goodnesscakes, your post is so incoherent , I can't even figure out what it is you are trying to say. You seem to genuinely believe everyone can be of average intellectual ability... surely you can see that that is logically impossible.

It is deeply insulting to say teachers don't give a damn about students who achieve below grade 4. League tables and so on may make us over focus on certian gardes but now that we are measured on progress of all students, that would be silly. But by the same token, you think all students can get grade 4 anyway. I think many (not all) teachers care deeply that society writes off many many students with low GCSE grades, leaving them (as user rightly deplored) with a teeny tiny range of opportunities after school. I also care that many schools are writing off students at grade 5/4 ability and refusing them admission to apparently non-selective school sixth forms.

I am genuinely baffled.

It is a shame that kids cannot progress to something else without maths and English. Technical and practical subjects should be the option without having to pass maths and English gcse.
Where I would disagree is going to university without these basic qualifications as you simply need them to write an essay and understand some basic stats.

It is called sets and flightpath.

Statistically a kid who has done poorly at primary school will tend to do poorly at secondary school - but statistical predictions are not promises. There should be scope for movement between sets (and flight paths should be burned but I’ve already done plenty of threads on that topic)

Not all subjects set and not all schools have or use 'flightpaths' : so I must be in your good books, cakes , no?

Noble. Unless like the Grammar Schools were doing, Colleges are effectively only enrolling those on courses that have passed at grade 4 !

This despite 'potentially' being able to enrol students that had passed at grade 2-3 standard in Maths/English on to level 2 courses.

Maybe some Colleges are 'selecting ' their students.

In my experience lets that is what colleges are doing. I am not in FE but I think it has soemthign to do with funding....

Bleeding Nora, I am lucky there is no GCSE in typing!!

Colleges need bums on seats, why would they be excluding a third of their potential population instead of running resit courses?

learning styles do exist. ASD is an obvious example, Dyslexia is another.

ASD and dyslexia aren’t learning styles?

My youngest has just passed GCSE maths with a 4 at her third attempt - she is at a FE college and has been able to take resit maths classes alongside her level 3 BTec. If she had wanted to do A' levels (that didn't require maths) then she would have been able to do this too.
I had to pay for the November resit as they don't automatically enter students but the June one was covered by the college.
The college also run resit English classes and were good at chasing if the pupils didn't attend.

Statistically a kid who has done poorly at primary school will tend to do poorly at secondary school

You are in effect admitting that huge number of primary school kids are doomed from the onset. Surely this is an unacceptable statistic.

But that should mean that something needs to be done starting from primary school to help those kids with ability in average range to succeed at GCSE. It probably has something to do with needing to be taught differently.