The DfE needs to stop the farce of compulsory Maths and English GCSE resits

[noblegiraffe]

Another year, another 124,560 students failing their GCSE maths resit and 99672 students failing their GCSE English resit.

Colleges have been saying for years that this government policy is a failure, that students are entered into cycle of resits and failures that does nothing to boost their confidence or enhance their qualifications.

If you get a 3 in maths or English GCSE you have to resit GCSE. If you get a 2 or below, you can take other qualifications like functional maths instead.

The government argues that GCSE is the key to opening doors and as many students as possible should be resitting to get that opportunity. But wouldn’t a qualification that they are actually likely to pass be better?

The resit pass rate for English dropped from 35.5% to 33.1% this year and for maths dropped from 37% to 22.7%. This is not an improving picture!

www.tes.com/news/gcse-results-english-and-maths-pass-rates-drops

I don't need to isent : I am a teacher. Sorry forgot that meant you couldn’t be questioned or asked to prove your opinions!

Well, 20 + years of teaching, it would be farily horrifying if I didn't know it....?

fairly, sorry...

Grades 1-3 are Level 1 passes on the QCA framework or whatever it’s called these days the same as Grades D-G were.

Indeed.

So they aren't deemed fit to progress to a level 3 qulaification is supposed to be the point. Nonetheless, they still get declared as GCSEs so DS, for example, has to put his D for Geography on a UCAS form. At the end of the day, he has a geography GCSE.

I still cna't see (funding aside) why a level 1 pass is not perfectly OK to progress to a college course in hairdressing, plumbing, mechanics and so on. These children are being forced out of progression routes, or forced to endlessly and pointlessly resit.

piggy
I agree, to a point.
I do think if you only have a level 1 qualification in English or maths you should do a level 2 functional english/maths alongside your college course where the focus is on the skills for life and employment.

Finally managed to catch up. RL and getting ready for Ds1 going to uni got in way.
Sorry round us you need at least grade 4 to do most apprenticeships and some need grade 6.
Many people have said to us such a shame Ds1 failed world development A level with a D!!!
Most employers and parents class grades g-d/1-3 as fails. Especially seeing schools tables only count 4 to 9.
Doesn't matter what teachers say.

user
What is accepted and wanted as a grade from colleges and employers is different to what is a pass grade.

Employers always wanted the C for English and maths.
A D was still a pass, but it wasn't deemed a good pass.

You've said yourself some places want a 6. Does that make 4 and 5 a fail because some places want a 6? Of course not.

So again...
A 4 is a standard pass. It is the rough equivalent of an old C. It is the benchmark most colleges and employers want to see.
Some will want higher and they absolutely can.
(Personally I'd love to see my A level subject requirement be a minimum of a 6 at GCSE)

Many people can tell you your child failed with a D at A Level. Equally they coukd decide that anythinf other than an A is a fail or that a pass is a red card with an outline of a unicorn on it. What 'many people's happen to say doesn't change fact. The bottom line is whilst a D is not a good pass, it is a pass. (Otherwise every 6th form under the sun is lying when they give their headline figures).

I know it’s not the point of this thread but now that kids stay in edu action till 18, why do we still have exams at 16? It seems so ridiculous to put kids through these exams when they seem to matter so little after the next stage.

Or a different slant, you can get a first, upper second, lower second and third at university.
Generally a strong degree that many employers and masters courses want is an upper second or a first. It doesn't mean the person with a 2:2 or a 3rd has failed their degree. They still have a BSc (hons) or a BA (hons), but they don't have the strong pass to get onto competative graduate schemes and many masters degrees.

Same with GCSE.

A C has never been the lowest pass! Grades A - G were all pass*

That's exactly what i said to dh and the children

They all looked at me as if i were demented

They have to be in education or training.
Exams at 16 mark the end of formal schooling. GCSEs are the general certificate. It gives students breadth of study and they can specialise after that.

For some of my students they go straight to the armed forces for basic training at 16 with parental consent. Others get full time apprenticeships from their Saturday jobs. Others go to work for the family business and they do city and guilds at the local FE college alongside it. All those options count as education or training.

letstalk2000
The 11+ pass is not the same as below level 4 on eng lang GCS.
My son passed the 11 plus 5 years ago. The "verbal reasoning" task was based on codes, vocabulary, grammar, that sort of thing. In every case there were 4 options to choose from and a grid he had to mark.

My son, like Alexander Hamilton's , is autistic. He struggles with communication at speed. He does not struggle with spelling or grammar or vocabulary. His vocabulary when last assessed was at 99th percentile. He got an old style level 5 in comprehension at the end of year 6. He got a standard score of 130 in the non verbal reasoning part of the 11+.

He just scraped a 3 on his English language GCSE (1 mark lower would have been a 2).

The two assessments are structured completely differently and measure in a totally different way. Given an English language GCSE in the 11+ format my DS probably would have got an 8 or 9 as his spelling, grammar, sentence construction and vocabulary are impeccable.

Please don't say they are comparable.

Not many fail degrees...

Not many fail degrees...
Not many fail GCSEs and get all Us.

The bottom line is a 3rd in a degree still gives the person a degree. It may not be a strong pass or one that is desirable for many employers but they have still passed a degree.
A grade E at GCSE gives the person a GCSE. It may not be a strong pass and it may not be highly valued in the same way A*-C are but they still have a GCSE.

Yes, I absolutely agree user. That is what I find sad and frustrating. These poor kids with 3s in Enlgish and maths and they can't even get on to a grass cutting apprenticeship (only very slight exaggeration of a course tilte there...)

I also agree with you maisy

yep rufus the kids are actually the worst culprits!!

Agree piggy

Children like oldbirdys child aren't helped by the current set up at all. And yet some people will (wrongly) claim her child is illiterate because they can't write at speed and churn off a contrived letter to an MP about what to do with some land in the community.

Actually Maisy it was write a newspaper article on corruption in sport (like many autistic sport is anaethema to him, maybe if they'd had a choice he could have selected a less dreadful option) - but yes, exactly.

I know that was the recent one.

The example I gave was one of the worst mock papers I've ever come across. It was somethinf like 'a piece of land has come up in your community. Write a letter to your local MP Outlining your proposal for the land'.

Just WTF. You spend ages teaching how to get passion into writing and THAT was the question.

Conversely, my DS was deeply anoyed that he missed out by a year on the corruption in sport task as he is obsessed with football facts and figures , to the point of geek.

That said, he probably would have bored the examiner to death.

so it has always surprised me that Gove did not suggest it

Labour were piloting 2 maths GCSEs and therefore the Tories couldn’t continue with it, despite all the experts recommending it.

Or perhaps with Gove it was because the experts were recommending it. Gove’s had enough of experts after all

yep rufus the kids are actually the worst culprits!!

Definitely

But they arent coming up with that one by themselves ...

Gove is such a silly little man.