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Secondary education

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The DfE needs to stop the farce of compulsory Maths and English GCSE resits

645 replies

noblegiraffe · 24/08/2018 11:37

Another year, another 124,560 students failing their GCSE maths resit and 99672 students failing their GCSE English resit.

Colleges have been saying for years that this government policy is a failure, that students are entered into cycle of resits and failures that does nothing to boost their confidence or enhance their qualifications.

If you get a 3 in maths or English GCSE you have to resit GCSE. If you get a 2 or below, you can take other qualifications like functional maths instead.

The government argues that GCSE is the key to opening doors and as many students as possible should be resitting to get that opportunity. But wouldn’t a qualification that they are actually likely to pass be better?

The resit pass rate for English dropped from 35.5% to 33.1% this year and for maths dropped from 37% to 22.7%. This is not an improving picture!

www.tes.com/news/gcse-results-english-and-maths-pass-rates-drops

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Isentthesignal · 31/08/2018 11:43

I think if dd’s teacher had even told us she wasn’t planning to cover the whole course, we would have at least have understood what was going wrong - instead we found out by default by dd continuing to be floored by every end of topic exam.

TeenTimesTwo · 31/08/2018 11:49

I do think there is a problem is pupils (and thus parents) don't realise there will be things on a test they haven't been taught, it is somewhat counter-intuitive until you understand why this happens.

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2018 11:50

Was she foundation or higher?

If higher, then lots of kids are floored by the end of topic tests.

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MaisyPops · 31/08/2018 11:51

noblegiraffe has it spot on.
I taught the whole course to all students (we don't had tiers any more and I think we should).
When it came to revision I emphasised different topics with different students.
E.g. A is a grade 5/6 student who needs to work on keeping calm and remembering to do language analysis in exam conditions or they're not hitting a whole assessment objective so they'll get more revision on that until it's secure because otherwise They'll scrape a 4 if they are lucky. (and giving them a level literary criticism probably isn't in their interests)

B is flying through and whilst they're only targeted a 6, they've been working at 7s/8s. They'll get some revision material on literary criticsm to push their interpetations to secure the 8.

C struggles to write enough in the time and frequently doesn't complete papers. They're capable of getting a 4 and their understanding is more of a 5, so I need to drill them in which order to answer questions and how best to structure their answers to get maximum marks given they can't write enough.

Each child has a different approach and focus. cakes seems to think that staff should be catering to learning styles (which don't exist), meeting the needs of individual students, whilst at the same time not having different work for different students (because everyone should have the same chance to get a 9 even though a basic bell curve tells you that isn't how it works).

Isentthesignal · 31/08/2018 11:54

She is doing higher - but she found the course being taught to be easy - when did we stop encouraging kids to extend themselves? Was that just a primary school thing?

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2018 12:05

We didn’t, Isent, that just sounds like either poor teaching, or overconfidence on your DD’s part.

Higher tier teaching is a shambles at the moment. I’ve also taught higher sets who have fallen apart on higher topic tests because a) they’re too hard and b) contain content that they haven’t been taught. But that’s what the higher tier is like. There’s an argument going on at the moment about whether the topic tests should be preparing the kids for the exam that they will face at the end where they will need maybe 1 in 5 marks for a 4, 58% for a 7 or whether we need to introduce ‘Intermediate’ topic tests where the grade 5-7 kids sit something that won’t ‘floor’ them but will conceal from them the topics/questions they’re not being taught until Y11.

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TeenTimesTwo · 31/08/2018 12:06

She is doing higher - but she found the course being taught to be easy - when did we stop encouraging kids to extend themselves? Was that just a primary school thing?

At DD's school pupils are encouraged to ask for extension work.

If my DD was consistently finding maths too easy, I would be contacting the teacher to ask their view and ask for extension questions or whatever.

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2018 12:13

In case it’s not clear, the foundation group that I taught all the foundation content to was the top group taking foundation. Other groups I would not teach all foundation content to.

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MaisyPops · 31/08/2018 12:18

that just sounds like either poor teaching, or overconfidence on your DD’s part.

I would agree.
It's worth a chat with school about it, whilst being open to the fact it could be either.

Isentthesignal · 31/08/2018 12:28

I did speak to the teacher - she said she taught to the middle of the class and wouldn’t be changing that and referred dd to the internet if she wanted access to the more challenging parts of the course.
Dd is not over confident - the opposite I would say. If she was confident she might have the courage to work out the more advanced stuff for herself, without teacher support but I think that’s asking too much of her. Her tutor helps her stretch herself a little and so she feels better prepared for the exam. She did better in her end of year exam than many in the top set - mind you they were missing their teacher for half the year!
I think the worst of all worlds Noble is to set an exam that covers material you haven’t taught and not pre-warn the student that this is the case, they eventually figure is out with repeated failures - which is what dd and her friends did, no one realises different material was being taught - there must be a better way to get the message across.

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2018 12:46

IME pre-warning kids that the test will be hard and they should expect to get less than 50% and that this will represent a good score for them is still pretty dispiriting.

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noblegiraffe · 31/08/2018 12:46

But framing their scores as ‘repeated failure’ is awful.

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MaisyPops · 31/08/2018 12:52

she said she taught to the middle of the class and wouldn’t be changing that
Then that needs raising with the head of department in my opinion.

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2018 13:00

If she did better in the end of year exam than many in the top set, then she moves up, and the kid at the bottom moves down. That should be how setting works. (Why are you keen to move her up a set if they didn’t have a teacher?).

If the argument is that the kid at the bottom of the set can’t move down because the teaching in the lower set is inappropriate then that’s also your argument that it’s inappropriate for your DD. HoD should be addressing this.

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Babysharkdoodoodoodo · 31/08/2018 13:06

My dad (sn) has finally passed maths with a 4 on the 3rd attempt. He got a U in English and college were trying to put him on the gcse again for the 4th time. I had to go in on my day off to make sure they put him on the functional skills level instead.

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2018 13:26

Congratulations on your DS’s maths result and you kicking arse about functional skills, Babyshark

But Angry at your username because it’s now in my head again Grin

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AlexanderHamilton · 31/08/2018 13:58

do doo do doo do doo

(ds has been on a performing arts summer school the last 2 weeks and they do a warm up to it!)

RomanyRoots · 31/08/2018 14:08

I think mine might be the only one taking foundation, she did say that her teacher said that she will probably do higher with the others, not sure if maths or Science.
If they think she is borderline 4/5 should I argue for the foundation paper?
I could be ill informed though as not heard this from the horses mouth, just dd. Who has been known to get it wrong. Grin

AlexanderHamilton · 31/08/2018 14:15

I don't know if ds will do Foundation or Higher Science. At the start of the year he was predicted a borderline Grade 3/4 but has now gone up to predicted Grade 5.

Isentthesignal · 31/08/2018 14:19

IME pre-warning kids that the test will be hard and they should expect to get less than 50% and that this will represent a good score for them is still pretty dispiriting. What other choice do they have - they are lambs to the slaughter, they are asked to face this without being adequately prepared either mentally or practically, it’s an incredibly harsh lesson.

RomanyRoots · 31/08/2018 15:10

Isent

It's a terrible situation to be in and as you say a harsh lesson.
Even if they are good at other things, the subjects where they aren't stand out like a sore thumb anyway.
I know we can't all be good at everything but we do need to prepare our kids for this.

I'm trying to get mine to see what I've titled learning tips and philosophy
basically I listed the usual tips for learning and added a activity of placing her subjects in order of importance for additional study.
So subject, score of 1-7 of ability, then order of importance.

I can guarantee that Maths, Science and English Lang will be the first in the importance, but I would argue that the subjects in the middle are more important as these could be brought up to a higher level.
Whereas subjects where a 4/5 is likely, she could work forever and not gain a 6/7.
It will be interesting how she sees it all.
She has her timetable on the school stream now and she has head of Science this year so she's very happy as she likes this teacher and they are very supportive.

user1471450935 · 31/08/2018 15:51

Ok.
As a parent who unlike most on here who have degrees, some it would appear from lurking on university threads went to Oxbridge or certainly could have, I don't, I went to work at 13 to help pay family bills, spent 5 years in bottom sets and left school with one true O level, got 3 equivalents at night school, and went to BBCA, to get level 2/3 qualifications and my wife has 5 Gcses.
You lot seem to live in a different world, my average DS1 got more Gcse's on leaving school, 7 then my wife and I did 6.
We have just struggled to get him through sixth form, doing the harder A levels, which we couldn't even understand. 50% of his history group got a U for their course work, because the school didn't have the resources to get them a pass, school marked all at C.
Both have been in lower sets,
It impossible to move sets after year8, WHY?
Because the lower sets work on Foundation levels every one else on Higher, Top set English do a completely different exam board to lower sets, Science do triple in top set, lowers only do double, History and Geography do different study fields.
So basically if your not in set 1 or possible 2 you can only ever get C/B or 4/5. That's the reality in most local schools it the way the get up to 60 to 70% pass rates.
The local Tory MP always says it's ok to cut funding for arts in state school, because there is the MDS or you can get a bursary. Yeah.
For the ones who wonder, our school has a choir and sings in events all around the region, lots of charity and singing in local care homes. The drama dept, annually works with the RSC to put on a Shakespeare play, with years 7 to 12, 8 other low ranking comps and primaries are involved, alternative years it's in Hull Truck Theatre. They get members of the RSC and Hull Truck into the school to help the students and teachers produce their own unique versions of a play. They also get to do days in the theatre working with current productions. The parents buy £5 tickets to help cover costume costs.
The school has since 2010 had 4 girls go to study opera all over Europe, 2 girls off to study piano, one in Holland which we all help raise £10000 for her living costs, plus a education trust I was a trustee for gave her £3000 for year one and will give £1000/year whilst she continues to study. The school holds art exhibitions of year 11 and 13 every summer and sells off pictures to help fund the courses and send the kids off to university. Then textile students hold fashion shows twice a year, sponsored by local companies. Two of this years A level kids are off to London and Milan to do Degrees.
None of these kids come from university families or would ever got anywhere near a MDS school.

Answering Cakes question
I would do like Canada and scrap GCSE's and make sure ever child got a basic education up to 17 and you leave with a certificate saying you are work ready. For the ones who want to do FE and University you then join at 17 and specialise. No one is classed as failures and the country even pays for students to go to university. Well the state of Ontario does anyway. Plus different degrees cost different amounts.
Never will happen, Britain even today is locked into a class system, which manifests itself in the education system, so 35% have to be deem failures, don't forget if Gove and Co had had their way it would have been 45-50%, because originally only 9-5 was a pass. You are only deemed gone enough if you attend a RG university, and state education is always underfunded under Tory governments. Has Mrs Thatcher told her cabinet, state schools aren't for the likes off our children, not even Grammars.
State schools, especially ones like ours and its neighbours are only designed for the plebs of this world, you know the ones who will work in minimum wage jobs, become hairdressers, nurses, firefighters and in Mr Andrew Mitchell's infamous rant police officers.

user1471450935 · 31/08/2018 16:08

Answering as I catch up.
Thank you piggywaspushed, Ds1 is looking forward to going in to Lincoln in 16 days. Only doing Criminology and it unconditional. I have learnt on here that Lincoln is a second rate university, from some who are on this thread posting about assisting low achievers, and Criminology is a joke degree, not worth having like true degrees.
In fact I think apart from me I only have heard Lincoln mentioned by 4 other posters ever.
I give up, I am a low achiever who is married to an average achiever, who has fought to get his kids further then their parents ever did, with no education background to get them there.
Mumsnet is both depressing and very unsupportive to people like me and our family.
I notice how every one congratulates kids for getting into a posh music school, but only you mine for getting to university. Think it says it all really.

Piggywaspushed · 31/08/2018 16:29

Tbh user I'll consider myself lucky if mine even gets near Lincoln. There honestly are buried posts by people despairing at options for thir average/ disaffected etc DCs. It is true they get crowded out but they are there. Lincoln is going up massively in the league tables and is becoming very popular. Just don't go and ask about criminology on MN or you get the Oxbridge law types piling in!!

Piggywaspushed · 31/08/2018 16:33

You should read Cleverlands : you'd like it!