The DfE needs to stop the farce of compulsory Maths and English GCSE resits

[noblegiraffe]

Another year, another 124,560 students failing their GCSE maths resit and 99672 students failing their GCSE English resit.

Colleges have been saying for years that this government policy is a failure, that students are entered into cycle of resits and failures that does nothing to boost their confidence or enhance their qualifications.

If you get a 3 in maths or English GCSE you have to resit GCSE. If you get a 2 or below, you can take other qualifications like functional maths instead.

The government argues that GCSE is the key to opening doors and as many students as possible should be resitting to get that opportunity. But wouldn’t a qualification that they are actually likely to pass be better?

The resit pass rate for English dropped from 35.5% to 33.1% this year and for maths dropped from 37% to 22.7%. This is not an improving picture!

www.tes.com/news/gcse-results-english-and-maths-pass-rates-drops

Are the resits still in November?

I can see why so many fail - presumably they will not have studied any formal maths for at least three months and then have to cram for an exam they had previously spent 2/3 years progressing towards whilst having to start A levels/B techs/apprenticeships?

November and June. The figures I gave above were for students who spent a year studying towards their resit.

Should say at least a year studying towards their resit. The figures are for students 17 or older, so would include Y13s who have spent two years in the resit cycle.

Also isn't the 'pass' for a four in maths around 20%?

A C when I was at school would have been viewed as being 'average' at maths.

If I got 20% in an exam, I'd be convinced I was shit at maths.

Some dodgy numbers from TES there Noble

Here is what TES had to say last year

www.tes.com/news/gcse-resits-pass-rate-down-maths-english

Oh I see what’s happened.

Delete the “The resit pass rate for English dropped from 35.5% to 33.1% this year and for maths dropped from 37% to 22.7%. This is not an improving picture!” From the OP as they are 9-1 resit figures. Obviously last year most students took legacy resits. I’ll need to get my calculator....

The number of thousands of students failing this year are correct.

Surely some sort of diploma in the 3 Rs would be better mm. Not everyone is good at Shakespeare and algebra.

If you want to break into Excel and do the graphs, here is 2016

www.tes.com/news/gcse-resits-pass-rates-plummet-after-rise-college-english-and-maths-entries

I have two friends who's dd's have sat resits one in English and the other maths. Both have now sat the exams three times and still fail to pass (get a 4).

The effect on their self esteem is awful. Both girls yesterday were so upset it was horrible to see.

I agree that there needs to be a different exam that would allow these children to progress onto the next level. Neither will have careers in the subjects they are failing at. But both have talent and skills in other areas, but because they cannot progress beyond a level 2 without maths and English they are being held back. The system is awful.

Way back when I did my GCSE's I got an E in Maths. The local college insisted that anyone who got below a C took a resit. I hated the thought of doing more maths and chose another college who didn't do resits. Then I got a job and had my first child.

And at 24 I decided I'd like to retake my maths gcse so went to adult evening classes and got a C.

If I'd have been made to resist at 16-18 I would have most probably have failed, and would have been put off enough to never even think about doing it as an adult.

Why are they so insistent that it has to be done before 18? So much pressure on these poor kids who are made to feel like failures.

I half agree with stopping compulsory resits . However, there has to be a no of pupils gaining grade 3 in English/Maths that are capable of gaining a 4 or 5 in a resit !

My evidence for this is from my own DS (SEN) improvements . He went from anticipated grades of 2 &3 respectively in Maths/English to achieving at levels 5 and 6 in 18 months. This with targeted and concentrated support in his weak areas of the curriculum.

Not sure about TES figures last year tbh either pesty, they’ve looked at UK-wide figures.

I’ve looked at the legacy figures in England only for 2017, as this will only be resits then looked at UK 9-1 aged 17+ figures for 9-1 for 2018 - this should just be England resitters as they’re the only ones doing 9-1.

I reckon that the pass rate for resitters in England doing English in 2017 was about 31.1%. So slightly up this year to 33.1%

The pass rate for resitters in England doing Maths in 2017 was about 25.4%, so dropped this year to 22.7%.

I did do loads of research on this a couple of years ago. The figures taken as a lump sum do not show the whole story (no surprise there). I had managed to get massive spread sheets covering every institute in England who did GCSE resits.

A 17 yo student resitting maths whilst doing 3 A'levels has an almost the same as first timers chance of passing, about 60%.

An adult back through choice also has a fair chance of passing somewhere between 40 - 50% (although loads drop out before the exam for a huge variety of reasons (drop out rate can be reduced by having catch up lessons on line))

For the 17 - 19 group the stats are dire about 18% some years.

SN students who have reached L2 and are then forced to do GCSE have an almost zero pass rate.

If I remember where I got the info, I will send it to you Noble

Yes, they should resit. A basic level of maths and English is essential for everyone.

Northern but why not sit Functional Maths/English? Those involve the skills that employers are supposed to want.

It's a ridiculous situation and one that is causing heartbreak.

But Northern the English language GCSE isn't reflecting basic literacy any more. My DS just failed it. In my day (end of 0 levels) it was a comprehension of short Q and A, a precis, and a story. Nowadays it's essentially an unseen literature paper. They have to compare two extracts looking at vocabulary, author craft, and text level and each of these is a short extended piece of writing. That doesn't show that a person has a basic command of English. My DS is autistic and has slow processing and poor inference skills. He can read and understand a passage and he writes in full grammatic sentences. His spelling and vocab are excellent. But he can't pass this GCSE the way it's written.

Either they need to make the GCSE an actual measure of ability to read and write in English, or they need to stop demanding it as a gateway qualification and leaving a bunch of able kids with specific learning needs on the career scrapheap. And same for maths...

Pesty I agree that some students have a better chance with resitting than others. I’ve found that students who need the better grade for something in particular (e.g. teaching/RAF) can be very motivated to succeed. Or students who had some sort of calamity first time around. Students who hire outside tutors to top-up what the college offers have a better chance, as college provision is usually an hour or two a week (if you couldn’t pass with 4 hours a week at school, how will that be enough?). But students, even good students struggle to balance the demands of their chosen subjects and a heavy courseload with a resit that suddenly swings up on them. I’ve taught lovely students who are doing coursework-heavy BTECs who qualify for extra time in exams but don’t get any extra time to do coursework so are working all hours to complete that. Understandably, me handing them a past paper to do comes way down their list.

But you also get huge swathes of kids who are resitting because they have to, who really don’t give a toss and barely turn up or do any independent work.

Surely there should be more nuance to who resits GCSE than a simple ‘you got a 3’. If over 100,000 students are failing, something needs to change.

Surely some sort of diploma in the 3 Rs would be better mm. Not everyone is good at Shakespeare and algebra.

I've been saying for years that there needs to be a basic "living" numeracy and literacy qualification. Pupils should be able to sit it at various points in their school/college years and once passed, that's what should open doors to more subjects/options etc. There's no point in wasting everyone's time trying to teach science to someone illiterate/innumerate, or a language to someone who can't read & write. Finally trying to tackle it by means of resits at College is far too late. Pupils who don't have basic literacy and numeracy skills need intensive support several years earlier when it can really make a difference to their overall education. I'd be quite keen on tests similar to the 11+ being the "basic living" standards which would be far more accessible to even struggling pupils and act as a platform to move on from into other subjects which could then be accessible to them.

Its fucking ridiculous. My son has SEN. hes been in a SEN school. He is NEVER gonna get his maths bless him. He just got a level 3 in english and im bloody ecstatic with this acheivement and he is still gonna have to do resits and not be able to progress further because so many courses will require maths and english. He can barely fucking count. He has so many other things he could do and wont be able to because of this policy

But Northern the English language GCSE isn't reflecting basic literacy any more.

Sadly, we've just found the same to be true. Very little of what I'd call literacy. My son's entire secondary school English teaching has been dominated by literature and poetry.

When I was at school, Eng Lang was all about writing letters, essays, articles, filling forms, etc with a comprehension which was usually factual and involved answering factual questions from an article/passage provided, so it was basically reading and understanding the words. My son's Eng Lang was all about interpreting literature texts and poetry, i.e. "explain the author's thoughts when he said 'green valley' or 'discuss the author's portrayal of character x' - to my mind, that's Eng Lit, yet it was in Eng Lang papers. Out of both Eng Lang's papers, there was only a single question that I'd put as Eng Lang, i.e. a single essay/descriptive/letter writing question which amounted to maybe a fifth of the total marks?

His 11+ English paper along side the 11+ verbal reasoning paper 6 years ago, was a far better examination of general literacy.

I tell you what is ridiculous. I know of a 40 something Autistic man that has just got a Theology Degree from the OU who is struggling with getting GCSE English that he requires for a possible teaching job ! He writes great 3000 word essays , but is struggling to get a grade 5 pass in GCSE English !

He asked is teacher should he use 'Harvard Referencing' for GCSE passages. This demonstrates an absurdity in a system where someone could have the skills for 'Masters' level writing in a academic subject but cannot pass GCSE English !

This highlights flaws in a system that requires GCSE English/Maths. This being for people who have far higher qualifications , but due to disability or hopeless' teaching methods failed at school.

This of course throws more 'obstacles' in the way of people who have already overcome extreme hurdles .

However, perhaps current pupils/students should study Maths and English to 18 years of age !

It's sad that that the teaching profession thinks of nothing but leaving behind on the scrapheap perfectly capable children who were failed by the education system since primary and be unaccountable for this.

Asked his English teacher (in a class of 17 year olds English resitters ) about Harvard Referencing for GCSE work !

I hate this too. not everyone is good at the core subjects.
It used to be that if you left school without O levels you could walk straight into a job or apprenticeship and work your way up.
My mum bless her passed the 11+ but had to get a job at 14 to support the family, she left with nothing but managed to find good jobs.

It isn't the fault of the DofE that employers and most colleges ask for maths and English GCSE's as part of their admission criteria.
I don't understand this, especially if the course/job doesn't require them.

My dd is lucky and has been told her college place isn't determined by passing GCSE's in Maths and English, she needs 3 of any subject, of course including the one she'll study.