The DfE needs to stop the farce of compulsory Maths and English GCSE resits

[noblegiraffe]

Another year, another 124,560 students failing their GCSE maths resit and 99672 students failing their GCSE English resit.

Colleges have been saying for years that this government policy is a failure, that students are entered into cycle of resits and failures that does nothing to boost their confidence or enhance their qualifications.

If you get a 3 in maths or English GCSE you have to resit GCSE. If you get a 2 or below, you can take other qualifications like functional maths instead.

The government argues that GCSE is the key to opening doors and as many students as possible should be resitting to get that opportunity. But wouldn’t a qualification that they are actually likely to pass be better?

The resit pass rate for English dropped from 35.5% to 33.1% this year and for maths dropped from 37% to 22.7%. This is not an improving picture!

www.tes.com/news/gcse-results-english-and-maths-pass-rates-drops

The fact that some DC will never be able to get a 'good' GCSE does not mean one should abandon thousands other perfectly capable children on the scrap heap, failed by the system.

Surely those that really cannot get GCSEs are tiny minority with specific reasons and circumstances, such as SEN and cognitive assessments reports that state their supposed IQ and that they will not achieve mainstream qualifications. The estimate is that only 2.5% have IQ below 70 and 5% below 80. And IQ should not be the end of all, "we are talking about just a few points", as Forest Gamp's mother would say, and professionals would/should be reluctant to say in most circumstances that such and such will never achieve GCSE.

The EHCP extended to 25 years supposedly for a reason, children should be taught GCSEs, not just 'resit', but be re- taught.

Ideally all children should be taught right the first time. If teachers were accountable to get good GCSEs for all mainstream students, they would teach to this result. Now they have licence to live many behind without good reason.

All children should be on the flightpath to at least a 4. Sky is the limit, but there should be a floor of 4. Lower sets should be taught in a way to plug the gaps and accelerate learning, to get at least a 4 at GCSE.

It is not right that children with ability in "average" range, including those with SEN, pushed into mainstream education are denied the qualifications which are a gate to progress in life. Teachers should be accountable to bring them to success.

One cannot seriously argue to go back to the 60s or whatsit time when GCSE were not needed. This is absurd in 21 century, with all the technology and fast changes. People need certain level of general knowledge, awareness, certain level of judgement, decision making, level of preparedness to adapt and learn further throughout their lives.

Surely education system that leaves behind 40% without looking back is a legacy of the outdated expectations of 'class'.

Noble, don't be offended so easily.

What solution would you recommend for my DD?

cakes and tea
You clearly know nothing about the difference between being able to communicate in writing at speed and being able to read, write, spell, and communicate with thinking time. Many autistic children in particular, but also dyslexic children and those with executive functioning difficulties, can do the second but not the first. The GCSE in English language requires the first. Life does not.

Either they need to make GCSE English grade 4 pass a genuine measure of basic literacy, or they need to stop demanding it before children can progress.

The GCSE is designed so that about 65% pass.
The downside is 35% fail.

Functional skills is generally a much better route for these kids to follow.

cake and tea, you dont know what youre talking about.
Children with SEN are not a rarity. There are some in nearly every class. My son has a perfectly normal IQ with his learning difficulty. That doesnt mean he is capable of getting maths GCSE. To have an IQ of 70 or under would indicate a learning disability, thats a different thing and these children would not be expected to sit GCSEs or do mainstream further education.
Children and adults with learning difficulties may have very real reasons they struggle to achieve academic qualifications. Processing difficulties, sensory difficulties, dyslexia, dyscalculia, autism, adhd - these people are still usually expected to work and somehow get through the education system.
Why the hell is it so wrong for example for my history and geography buff kid to have to get maths in order to study his specialist subject when he struggles with number so much? Why? It was never like this before? Why does he need maths to do his drama course. How many times do you want his confidence trashed/?

People are good at some things. Not all

The downside is 35% fail

NOOOOOO! they don't. Not shouting at you, but the word fail.
If you have a certificate you haven't failed.

This is the problem, these people aren't failures. It's horrible and follows you through life.
It's obvious to a person with an IQ under 70 that they aren't going to gain the grades needed for academia.
This is fine, there are plenty of other things they can do, they certainly haven't failed anything.
They have turned up to school, in many cases worked bloody hard but some subjects are just beyond them. It's horrible to feel like you are in a daze, another world because you just don't understand.
We aren't going to help these people unless we stop calling them failures.

As a parent of 2 boys Ds1 B's, C's and 1 D and E, now got 3 C's at level and a D, and Ds2 who is expect to get a range of Gcse's this coming summer of 2 to 4/5, why we have set up Gcse's so that 30-40% fail?
I believe in A level a E is still a pass, so why is a G-D or a 1-3 classed as a fail in Gcse.
Why in god's name did the idiots design a exam, which much of your future counts, where 40% are failures.
I guess because the idiots in charge are all ex private/Oxbridge types or Grammar school.
Boils my blood, I only hope my wife never meets M Gove, because she will spend time for murder if she does. He is below contempt in our house.

These children are expected to sit GCSE's in school.

Cakes you have no idea - no idea.

On Thursday I watched my Dd (Grade 8 Maths & English Lit & Grade 9 Lang incidentally) celebrate with a classmate who achieved Grade 3’s in his maths & English. Same school, same teachers, no SEN. his teachers you could tell obviously cared lots about this young man & I know he’d received a lot of support. He will have to re-sit but this young man also has an incredible talent & aged 16 has been accepted onto a course which means in 3 years time he will have a Level 6 qualification. Why on Earth he can’t do a maths & English qualification more relevant to the life skills he will actually need is beyond me.

My own son is incredibly bright & articulate but he cannot get his ideas down on paper. He has a tutor but I have to prepare for the fact that in 2 years time he may not pass.

Teachers like Noble & the ones at dd’s School care about these kids & do their utmost for them.

The 35th percentile on IQ is 94, you can be perfectly normal intelligence and not do well at GCSE.

Repeated failure is not good.

Maybe we should let the learner choose between redoing GCSE and doing functional skills.

What we need to do is make education free up until level 3 for all age groups. 17yo are not always ready to keep learning. Give them the option to drop out, learn about life and then drop back in.

I have been teaching resit English classes for five years and everyone has always passed by June. However, perhaps this is because it's a school 6th form and these are generally academic 'A' level students who just missed a 4 in their weakest subject?

I love these discussions on here and I have had so much help and support for my dd, under another nn.

But, I'm going to have to hide these threads if I keep reading the word fail.
It's not societies fault they/ you think like this, it's conditioning.
Nothing can change for kids that don't get a level 4 until we stop calling them bloody failures.

Totally agree, Nobel. Since resits have come in, science results seem to have dropped (I'm talking about in mine and other science teachers opinions).

I feel hard done by. Totally selfish of course. But teaching a compulsory subject that is fucking hard that is the only one that doesn't have this resit threat means students obviously put their efforts into English and maths.

I'm disappointed again in our results. I and some of my team worked really really hard. Yet again we didn't do aswell as English and maths (in our school). This is a new trend since this came in. SLT will rightfully say I need to get the kids to put more work in. But I don't blame the kids for putting their effort into English and maths.

Bloody fed up. I don't think I have anything else up my sleeve. Totally deflated. I'm sure some will say it's an excuse to blame the resit issue. But from a kids point of view, it's bloody obvious!

RomanyRoots
I know what you mean, we just accept Ds2 won't, probably get 4 in English and Maths, we love him no less then DS1 who got c in both, just looking at career paths he can take with his grades.

But if you look up GCSE's the first thing you see is Grade 4 standard pass, and Grade 5 High pass, so avoiding your "f word", if government and industry think like this, what chance have kids like my Ds2.
I completely agree no child is or ever should be seen as a "f", but our government has set up a exam which leads to around a third been seen as. It is crap, but unless there is a major change nothing will change.
Mumsnet seems always to be for high achievers or those applying to Oxbridge.
Have you every seen some start a thread about why so many grade 1 or 2's or it so unfair that 937 kids only got 1's in every exam, they throwing them out like smarties?
No me neither, but there are loads for bloody grade 9's
Think that says it all.

user

Thank you.
i think we need a national campaign and change.
People always complained about tiered education, and rightly so as the "F" word was banded about.
However, if we could tell kids what they could do regarding work without level 4.
Then what was available for the other levels. Would somebody with several good options really be bothered they wouldn't make a brain surgeon.
Do people in entry level jobs hate their job any more than middle management employees?
We could be a lot more honest with kids about their options, being told you aren't academic isn't the biggie, it's being called a failure that follows you through life, even if you are successful. I know

User

Just for you and the parents of others who find themselves in the same position. This made me snivel quite a lot.
[
www.tes.com/news/gcse-student-pleads-dont-forget-me-damian-hinds

^It's not societies fault they/ you think like this, it's conditioning.
Nothing can change for kids that don't get a level 4 until we stop calling them bloody failures^

It's not education, it's apartheid. The new GCSE English Language is just testing gender stereotypes, race and class in language. English Literature with its ban on non British born authors is just overt apartheid.

I agree with an earlier poster that there's a very weird discrepancy between lit and lang results, but god knows who has actually been 'marking' these papers.

I know someone who has 2 professional qualifications, one was supposed to be a 5.5 year course, he qualified in 1 year by teaching himself whilst holding down a full time job.

He spent 2 years trying to get English O level and failed 4 times between the ages if 16-18

In today’s reality he would never have been able to progress to any professional qualification.

This is what is wrong, but i believe it stems from the "f" word.
if certain levels of GCSE gained you access to different levels of further education there wouldn't be this problem.

I have taught at most of the lower levels in colleges, including entry level, young people who were deemed failures.
There was a good pass rate in customer service, and several of my students went on to gain jobs in retail and hospitality.
Why on earth they needed English and Maths GCSE is beyond me.
They did all pass functional skills though. It was so rewarding to see previous chair throwers (during ofsted inspection) and table turner overs serve me in a town centre shop. Or walking past the college with their little charges.

Of course the next level in their industry might be hindered but their are others to fill these places, and above those the degree holders.

there are others I hate my crap education

Romany
Thank you for both your replies, the grade 1-3 is so correct.
But we a a family are so sick of results days. On A level day all 5 local radio stations and 2 tv local news followed 20 different students all got A* or A's.
GCSE day same every student got 7 or 8's with odd 9's. Where are the great kids who get 1,2,3 or 4's or E,D or C at A level bloody no where. They are invisible, no one gives a shit.
Odd comment about missing grades isn't the end.
It shit and unfair. But government and mumsnet aren't bothered

Forgot to say on higher education there is a thread which says the op's dc, who got AABB, at A level feels like a failure.
Ours got CCCD and we are over the moon

Ds didn’t pass English (as we knew he wouldn’t) but did pass maths.

We chose his college because they weren’t hung up on him passing both GCSE Maths and English. They do functional Math and English alongside the course.

Same course, other different colleges nearby and to get onto this course entry was anywhere between 2 and 5 GCSEs (must include English and Maths).

Why can't they do something like the old system? I got cse grade 1 in maths, equivalent to a grade C, I'm just not maths minded, I got O'level grade B in English language. I worked in the Civil Service for 27 years in Revenue & Customs, a lot of it working with figures & never really struggled, even before computers when everything was done manually. Why can't there be a GCSE in functional every day maths? Things that you actually need in every day life instead of algebra & that kind of thing for anyone who isn't maths brained, they can then have proof that they can do the things that are essential & not have to do resits. My brother can do any kind of maths, but ask him to spell & he's useless, he still managed to get a degree in Electrical Engineering & has a very good job as a systems architect, any letters & reports he needs are done on computer that checks his spelling & grammar. In this day & age there are ways round most things.

I think the problem will get worse.

With children needing to know how to read and write before they start school more and more children are going to be left behind.

My own experience with 2 DC was that you needed to know how to read by the time you were in year 2.

With DD it clicked in the summer holidays just before year 2 started. With ds he was not ready to learn in reception.
And struggled because you other factors and was left behind in year 1. So come year 2 he wanted to learn but the teaching wasn't there.

Like another child in his class with the same problems it was made so horrible that leaving seemed the only option