Dreading move from private to state - help me feel more positive!

[LeatherSuitcase]

My DS has been at prep school for years 5 & 6, we'd hoped for grammar like my older DS but he just missed out.

DS is now heading to our local state school for year 7 onwards. He went for transition day and hated it and neither of us are feeling very positive about the new school (though I'm hiding this obviously). Apart from Eng and Maths all the classes are mixed ability and he's worried (and so am I) that he'll be bored after the pace and level at his prep school. Also he's done two years of French and Spanish at prep so is predicting being bored for two years in those subjects.

I've had some other threads under different user names exploring mine and my husband's dilemmas re keeping him in the prep school versus sending him to the local state school. If I had more money and a DH that supported me I'd rather keep him at the private school where he's currently very happy (it runs to end of year 8). But I can't do that and now I'm dreading the new school and feeling miserable.

How can I cheer the h*ll up and embrace this new phase and also stop worrying that I'm ruining his life by taking him away from somewhere where he's happy and making him go somewhere he's decided he doesn't like?

Bertrand- are you saying DS has already done GCSE?
Where the hell has that time gone? It only seems a few months since he got his school allocation.

“Bertrand- are you saying DS has already done GCSE? shock
Where the hell has that time gone? It only seems a few months since he got his school allocation.”

Worse than that- he’s just finished year 12. Proper Mama Mia stuff! I hate it.

Yikes! Just doesn't seem possible.
Where does all that time go?

French2019 is right about state primaries teaching French, my DDs studied from Yr3 in school. They've found in it interesting in Yr7 as here is more emphasis on tenses - they are both in outstanding state secondary schools not grammars.

They also studied Latin in Yr6 and have continued to study it in Yr7.

So your DS probably won't be the only student to have studied a MFL prior to secondary school.

llijk why is your dc going to private school if you are dreading it so much?
You've probably written about it but I haven't read the thread/posts.

My son got 11 GCSEs last year from a standard high school - all at the top grade. He had been taught French right from Reception - again standard primary school. When he entered the high school I knew he would do well wherever he went. He's had a mix of teachers over the years. However, it was him who revised prior to taking the GCSEs. Please don't worry about this.

he's obviously going to be at the top (academic ability wise) of his future school as all the other kids who passed the 11+ are now going there.

You don't know that.

You do not know how many parents didn't enter their child for 11+, how many did but decided not to go the grammar route and how many would be in grammar had parents had enough money for tutors.

As for languages, he might find himself sitting next to a child fluent in 4 languages.

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if PP have suggested. If he missed by 0.25 of a mark he can be on the waiting list. I'd say give it a go. I'm not sure what area you're in but if it's SW, I know the local comps in the grammar areas aren't half as bad as they used to be. If by Christmas he's still not settling, maybe keep on at the grammar, I don't know if they still do it, but you used to be able to do the entrance exam every year to bump your way up the waiting list.

You sound snotty to be honest. Your local school will be full of hardworking teachers who will do their best for your child - he may be at the top of a secondary modern but in a comprehensive he would be middle ability.
If the best his private school could do for him was to help him achieve those results, I am not sure why you are worried about what he will achieve in a state school. He will certainly be pushed although you might be right about MFL- primary school MFL provision is very mixed in quality across the country.
He will be fine. You need to be very careful that he does not pick up your attitude to the school. The school will do its best. The children will be perfectly nice children and most will have parents who want them to do well and encouage hard work and good behaviour. If you have given him the impression the school is second best and not good enough, that will be how he approaches it.
Research shows that the biggest factor in how well a child does at school is their family background. Poverty and deprivation and everything that goes with them affect children throughout their school lives (and beyond). A child from a supportive, comfortable background will have every chance of exceeding KS2 outcomes.

"DSS is in a secondary modern. It's bloody dire. Will he achieve the grades he would have if he'd gone to the grammar? Nope"
Well presumably he did not do well enough in the 11+ to go to the grammar school. Why do you think he would have got better grades there? The teaching would be aimed at the academically most able - as no one else goes there. Your DSS is not amongst that group and likely to have struggled academically with the possibility, under the new GCSE system, that he would have failed to achieve higher paper grades and ednded up with nothing.

I think attitude to learning and work ethic are the key factors, intelligence and a good school help but they are not enough on their own.
Not a teacher, just my experience

I think it would be better to be nearer the top in a non-Grammar state school than at the bottom in a Grammar state school!

If after two years at prep he still couldn't pass the 11+ then I would actually doubt he will even be at the top of his new school. Your DS clearly isn't 'gifted' so no need to worry about school being unable to help him reach his potential, mixed ability classes will be good for him.

Why would he be bored in French and Spanish classes? Plenty of state primaries will have been teaching these as well, do you think teachers are unable to differentiate?

I would be more worried about the attitude of being bored in class, perhaps that's why he failed his 11+ But the number one factor about him doing well in his GCSE is support from home, do you have any concerns he wont get that support?

I think perhaps you picked the wrong prep school. If it goes to year 8 then they will be prepping for the common entrance exam at 13+ not Grammar at 11+. It sounds like he had a great few years so it's not as if it's wasted. Was he tutored specifically for the 11+? Most kids would have been Private or otherwise.

There are plenty of children who don't take the 11+ but are more than capable of passing it, some of these are the brightest children and the grammar schools end up with just the ones who have been tutored and really want to go there. Out of the people we know with exceptionally bright children it is about half and half taking the 11+, some want a church school, some don't believe in grammar schools, some kids just want to be with their friends, some it is for practical reasons, some just haven't thought about it etc. It isn't the be all and end all for a lot of families so to assume that there will be no other bright children at the school he is going to is a bit short sighted in my opinion. Some take the exam but decide it isn't the school for them, too pressured or not as many subject choices etc. At the end of the day he didn't pass the exam and will be going to a school where there will no doubt be children who either did or could have done. he will not be bored because of that.

If he goes into it with a bad attitude then he is setting himself up for an unhappy time. At that age I don't personally think it would be too blunt to tell him there will be children at his level and above his level in the school he is going to. if nothing else it will prepare him for the fact he probably won't be top in anything.

my initial reply was based on your first post and I just saw the later one where you clarified that your problems come from your past. In that case I think my suggestion would be that you need to speak to someone and sort out your own self esteem. Education is important yes but it isn't who you are. I was at a highly selective school, I tried hard but I didn't do amazingly. I had friends who didn't have the opportunity to go to that school (it was fee paying) but who worked hard like me and they got better results. No idea now who got what, no idea which of us is more intelligent, no idea if they would have passed the 11+ had they had the chance to take it. it really isn't important in our lives now. I don't generally know out of the parents at our primary school who has A-levels or degrees or who didn't get maths or English GCSE, again it really isn't important in our lives. Looking at the jobs people have certainly there are plenty with degrees working in very low paid jobs just because they fit round children and I do know a few who did miss out on important GCSEs but have trained vocationally and are earning a lot more than those with degrees.

What I DO know is that attitude to education is the important bit. If you respect it and value the opportunities we have in this country and don't take it for granted and always work hard then you can potentially go a long way. If you dismiss it and don't bother then it doesn't matter how many opportunities you are given then you won't succeed.

You need to put your past behind you, your children aren't you. You have given them the chances you can and you are supporting them but don't over do it. We have friends forcing their kids to do the 11+, forcing them to have no extra curricular activities because their lives in years 4/5 are about studying for the 11+. These are children who even then aren't in the top sets at state primary school or scraping into them but grammar is the only things in their families plans. I find it shocking. The children may well get in but they aren't the brightest children, they will probably struggle and they don't have lives at the moment. They might well rebel against it in the future. I would far rather my children enjoyed some of their lives at that age and could build confidence in themselves and their abilities than be under constant pressure.

I think it really depends if it’s an area such as Bucks where there are lots of grammar schools and the preps really go for 11 plus whilst taking a few through to 13, or whether it’s a super selective area where there a couple of Grammars and the other schools can reasonably be described as comprehensive. If it’s the latter, I really cannot see the problem. Even in the former, many Bucks secondary moderns have well over 30% high achievers in secondary schools. As Bucks doesn’t have 0.25% in the 11 plus results I know you are not there but I think you have tried your best but Private cannot make all your dreams come true. Borrowing money wasn’t a great idea in my view either.

However, you are where you are! My DD had not done any MFL in primary. She went to an independent secondary and was soon as good as everyone else who had done a bit of MFL at prep. The one who got a place at Oxford to do MFL was my DD. Just doing a bit at prep really is neither here nor there. Just support him and he’ll be fine. Bright children with supportive parents always do well and put your education to the back of your mind. You are not your parents!

I think when plans don't quite work out (I.e not getting into a grammar school) it's a shock and can really shake everyone's confidence a bit in the family so don't be too hard on yourself. Regarding the future school, my child came our of her induction day in tears determined to go to another school, within weeks of her starting high school it was clear to everyone it was a perfect fit for her. Two years in we can't be happier. At the time I spoke to other parents about my worries they replied "what's to like at the taster day? The child goes somewhere totally new, with people they don't know and the whole pace is big and scary".

I agree with other posters, research trips, clubs, extra curricular activities and let yourself be excited about them, this will rub off on child. Often times things work out so much better than we first thought. Also be kind to yourself.

OP, you say your son chose this high school over another, so that automatically gives him some buy in.

It is very unusual for a 10 or 11 year old to worry about being bored because a school won’t stretch them. Projection is a powerful thing! Little ears reach far.

BBQ woman: some people say all sorts to explain away disappointing achievement..... and there is a school local to me that has people fighting to get ii and giving it such glowing reports that I should think it can be seen from outer space. And yet I also know two families where a child has fallen through and failed badly at that school.

Lots of encouragement for your DH, he is probably upset with himself at not getting a Grammar place and has maybe put himself in tne mindset of ‘getting the school he deserves as a non-passer’.

He can do well: BertrsndRussell’s DS was, I think, a fluke failure at 11+ (a failure of the grammar system if you ask me. I am not a fan of the Gramnar system) and she says he has gained excellent grades at his high school.

I can see it touched a nerve, but be aware that it also touched a nerve with some parents who have no chance of private education, to hear of state education potentially ruining any life. It is tough that you had a bad time, but it sounds as if it was due to parental support (lack of £ rather than state school. You are a different parent.

If he missed by 0.25 of a mark he can be on the waiting list.

Depends on the local rules. If it's a school which just admit in order of score and he was just 0.25 off the last score admitted, possibly / probably. Wouldn't be the case in our local grammar schools, though - 303 qualifies you for a place or a place o the waiting list if the cut off is higher, 302.75 would not allow you to go on the waiting list. Would be able to go on the CI list for retesting for in year places that come up once the waiting list is dissolved, though.

I understand your disappointment, but really you need to take a step back.
Children from more affluent backgrounds tend to do better educationally anyway. You had the funds for 2 years of private schooling which you hoped would get your DC into grammar. As it happened they didn't make the cut.

So say (guessing %) 25% get to grammar and the rest to to the comprehensive. That's reasonably able students like your DC and all the other kids who are able but didn't sit the 11+ for whatever reason.

It sounds like you want what's best for your child. Who doesn't? But you have to stop acting like this is some kind of catastrophe. Even with an educational leg up for 2 years, your DC didn't get to grammar. He's probably in the top 50% of thr cohort but most likely a middle ability child with the potential with hard work to get high grades and there's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps with the grammar stream out the equation he might get into top set in the comp.

I'm afraid you need to get a grip and some perspective. A child with previous educational legs up, good work ethic and a stable and supportive home life will be just fine in a comprehensive.

My son was in Pre Prep and Prep because we wanted him to start age 5 with a late Aug birthday instead of aged 4. The Prep was a disaster. Way too much sport and emphasis placed on those who were good at it. Pastoral care was awful and the classrooms were scruffy and antiquated.

In Yr 5 we switched to state school and managed to keep DS in out of year placement. A tiny local school in the inner city with big classes worked so much better for him. Teachers and TA's were up to date on all matters. Working for SATs meant Maths and English were up to date. There was no cricket or athletics - but you can join clubs for that.

At secondary school sports resources will be fine and the system in place for learning will lead towards GCSEs right from the start. Don't worry, it will be fine.

I've personally sat several 11+ papers across Maths, English, VR and nonVR. My opinion is that there is little content in these papers to reflect current ability levels, rather just how tutored you are to be pass exams. My dd is top of her year in Primary and I have every confidence she will do well at school (and yes all parents say that too but mine has consistently demonstrated good results that are mastering++ in all levels and has phenomenonal mental maths ability). Yes would I bank my house on her passing the 11+? Absolutely not. So don't feel bad prep school was a waste as it wasn't.

With state schools, unless schools have demonstrates top results and I don't mean the odd grade 9 or grade A , I mean a good % getting the highest grades across all subjects, is there the push and aspiration to stretch the brightest? Are they resourced well and do they have the experience?
I think intention and well meaning is there from the school but I would want to keep a close eye on things. Stretch topics, non- curriculum topics that make the mind really think and solve problems, coding and maths challenges...most schools simply don't have resources to go there. Its a long way off IMO. So you as a parent will need to work a bit harder if your child has ambition ...to equip your child for success.

I can understand Noblegiraffe’s frustration at the attitude that you have failed your son before he’s even set foot in the school.

It’s extremely demoralising, as a teacher, to feel that your school and therefore you, are regarded as second best. When, in fact, the opposite is often true. I still think that if you’re in tears over it , whether you intend it or not, your child will assimilate your perception and it will colour his too.

He chose the school, you say, so there must have been something about it that appealed to him. It’s been said time and again that children of interested and engaged parents do well. It’s one of the most important aspects. If he knows you’re supporting him in doing the best he can, that’s what he will do.

Please give it a chance- and bear in mind that, with anything new, there’s a settling in period.

It will be the making of him. He thinks he will be better than the other kids and he won’t be. Not every clever child wants to sit the 11 plus. He will have to work hard to keep up with some of his peers who have been in state primary and not hot housed.

To those saying that OP's DS can't be that bright because he went to prep school but failed 11+...

Prep schools don't prep for 11+, they prep for common entrance. I failed 11+ but got a full academic scholarship at private school (which would have been far more competitive than 11+). And actually the same happened to my mum (failed 11+ but got a full scholarship to go private).

11+ when its just verbal and nonverbal reasoning is weird exam that has nothing to do with what you learn in school - private school or otherwise. You need specialist tutoring for it.

At least the scholarship exams were connected to what you actually learn in school.