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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Oh my naivety about grammar school areas...

75 replies

Walnutshell · 17/05/2007 14:05

Just read Grammar School System Serves Middle Classes and thought "oh dear".

Just moved to grammar school area and while I had my reservations, I STUPIDLY thought that if ds was bright enough (he is only 18m right now) he would go to the grammar, otherwise a regular comprehensive. Regardless of my views on this education system, I accepted that this was part of moving to the area should we still be here in 10 years. Now I read this article (and OK, it's only one person's POV) and I'm wondering at my own naivety in presuming there would be an element of fairness in place allocation. I doubt we will have the cash (or philosophy) to provide hours of private tuition.

Again, "oh dear".

Would welcome thoughts from people in grammar school areas who have first hand experience - particularly those with average income...

OP posts:

Hallgerda · 17/05/2007 14:42

Well, we certainly couldn't afford all that tutoring and DS1 managed to get into a grammar school .

OtterInnit · 17/05/2007 14:44

we did no tutoring and are out of area and still got ds and dd in! There is a lot of bolleux talked !! dont worry!

Piffle · 17/05/2007 14:44

which area are you in walnutshell

Freckle · 17/05/2007 14:46

DS1 is at a grammar and neither he nor any of his friends had any tutoring. I do know of people who have employed tutors but they are pretty few and far between round here.

DS2 has just passed the 11+. We did have a tutor for him, to increase his self-confidence. His tutor said that he didn't need tutoring per se, but it did help him feel more confident in his abilities and stop him from just freezing when confronted with a paper. I don't accept that we have tutored him so that he could take the place of a brighter child from a poorer background. We've merely done what we thought was necessary to give him the opportunity to show what his abilities are.

bossykate · 17/05/2007 14:47

which one, hallgerda, no grammar schools in the people's republic of lambeth!

edam · 17/05/2007 14:47

If you are in a grammar school area, the schools children who fail the exam go to aren't comprehensives. Clearly they can't be comprehensive because they don't cater for all abilities, the ones who are good at passing exams have been creamed off.

That's the risk you take, I guess. Both dh and I went to academically selective schools. I loved it, dh didn't. He'd have been better off at a comp, I think - he's intelligent but just hated the single-sex grammar school ethos.

edam · 17/05/2007 14:49

Fair enough Freckle, but you did give him an advantage over an equally bright but lacking in confidence child whose parents couldn't pay for tutoring.

Freckle · 17/05/2007 14:50

That's not entirely true. Our local high school - which classes itself as a comp - does cater for all abilities. Not all parents believe in the grammar system or may have older children who already attend the high school and are happy for their other children (who may be grammar school material) to attend.

In fact, at the school, they have what they call a grammar stream - go figure!

Freckle · 17/05/2007 14:51

That's true, but I am doing the best for my child and I'm not going to apologise for it.

edam · 17/05/2007 14:54

Didn't say you should, but your comment 'I don't accept that we have tutored him so that he could take the place of a brighter child from a poorer background' isn't strictly accurate. Well, you may not accept it, but you did give him an advantage over poorer children.

I'm not being holier than thou, we moved into an area with v. good state schools and therefore high house prices. But I do recognise that we are advantaged because we can afford to live round here.

Original poster

Walnutshell · 17/05/2007 14:55

All very interesting, please keep it coming.

We're in Torquay, Piffle.

OP posts:

flamingtoaster · 17/05/2007 14:59

Both my children have gone to Grammar Schools - and they both flourished. I prepared them both for the 11+ myself using material available from WH Smiths, etc. There is also a lot of help available on the internet e.g. www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/ which apart from selling 11+ papers also has free downloads and a parents' forum which you might find interesting to read even at this early stage! Walnutshell if the 11+ survives until DS is ready for it there is absolutely no need to pay for tutoring to get through it. When I introduced my two to verbal reasoning I simply explained that they would be given puzzles to do at the 11+ and we would be practicing some so it didn't come as a shock. They actually enjoyed "the puzzles" and would ask to do them!

Freckle · 17/05/2007 14:59

I take your point, edam, but I was meaning that we didn't tutor him to enhance his abilities so that ultimately he would get into a grammar but another child, who was brighter than he, but poorer wouldn't, IYSWIM!

We had been advised by his primary school that he was prime grammar school material, but his self-confidence was holding him back.

However, my statement, taken at face value, probably wasn't accurate.

Zog · 17/05/2007 15:04

Just read the article and it's all completely true. I come from this area and up until recently have supported the grammar school ethos but not any more. It's now about how much money you have and our house prices are being totally distorted by people moving out from London to save themselves £££ in private secondary school fees. In our area, there are a great number of prep schools and hardly any private secondaries. In fact, I overheard two Mothers congratulating themselves in the swimming changing rooms over the amount of money they were going to save, as they were only going to have to privately educate their children up to the age of 11. Both had recently moved from London.

We are now contemplating a move away from our home, family and friends because we cannot possibly compete. If I sound bitter, I probably am .

UnquietDad · 17/05/2007 15:06

So much depends on the area, it seems.

I grind my teeth when I hear "I am just doing the best for my child", though. Who, really, ever does the worst for their child? or the mediocre?

Piffle · 17/05/2007 15:06

we're in Lincs walnutshell, not many are tutored here in our town, ds certainly wasn't but got in and is in yr 9 doing extremely well...
I know of a few lads who had cram tutoring as they were borderline passes and now inyr 9 are struggling badly as well...
So you have to be prepared to keep it up tbh

UnquietDad · 17/05/2007 15:14

As I've said on a nother thread, there ae a lot of people with bright kids and comparatively few grammar school places, compared with the numbers there used to be.

An awful lot of people are going to think they have an entitlement to a grammar school place, and will do anything they can to get their child into one. If we had sufficient grammar school placeas for the more academic, there would be no need for the mad scramble. The same applies with the decent comprehensives - they may not have entrance exams but they sure as hell have unoficial entrance criteria, usually involving an income over a certain amount and the owning of property.

If you were told you could be guaranteed a place at the best school by giving the headmaster a blow-job, mothers would be lining up at the office door armed with mouthwash.

Zog · 17/05/2007 15:15

lol

Kathyis6incheshigh · 17/05/2007 15:19

"If you are in a grammar school area, the schools children who fail the exam go to aren't comprehensives. Clearly they can't be comprehensive because they don't cater for all abilities, the ones who are good at passing exams have been creamed off. "

But even if you're not in a grammar school area the comps aren't truly comprehensive because there are so many private schools (more than ever since the abolition of most grammars, of course) and because of the distortion caused by the house prices/catchment area thing.

Hallgerda · 17/05/2007 15:28

bossykate, DS1's commuting to the next-borough-but-one. I'd rather not name the school here, but I'll tell you at the meet-up on Sunday.

bossykate · 17/05/2007 15:29

thank you

CheesyFeet · 17/05/2007 15:57

Grammar schools here too.

DD will not be tutored. If she doesn't get in, so be it. She will end up at a crap school but I refuse to put her under the stress of extra tuition at age 10 then keeping it going all through secondary school. The financial side of tutoring isn't ever going to be an issue as it will never raise its head. I will help and support her as any parent would but I won't pay someone else to get her through.

Of course, at 2.10 it is already obvious she is a child genius and will fly through the 11+.

Original poster

Walnutshell · 17/05/2007 21:10

LOL Cheesy.

So, really and truly, if you can't throw cash at the problem, then grin and bear whatever happens in most cases. God, depressing.

But I do take heart from your post, flamingtoaster.

I will check that site too - thanks.

OP posts:

compo · 17/05/2007 21:12

Is it true that there are only grammar schools in Devon and Kent?

Original poster

Walnutshell · 17/05/2007 21:22

I've just found a long-ish list of regions here

OP posts:

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