What are STATE schools in London like?

[TeenTimesTwo]

I've been reading with mild interest the issue of exploding offers for CLGS.

But it made me wonder. From what I see in media (TV news, and papers), I have the impression that state schools in London have made great steps forward over the past 10-15 years and are now considered very good.

Is that true? Not just for schools with convoluted admissions criteria (like Grey Coats?) but on average for your ordinary run of the mill local secondary?

If so, why so much angst over applying to so many private schools? And the willingness to set up your 11 year olds for such long commutes? Is the education really so much better? Or is it 'snob value' or fear of the unknown, or 'because that's what my social circle does' or old reputations?

Yes, our comp acts immediately if the public complain about out of school behaviour, and I have even known them hold an identity parade to find the culprit. Staff patrol the high street after school.

A traditional rugby fixture between two S London schools, one state, one private, was cancelled last year because of racist and classist abuse by the private school boys.

But there have also been some appalling incidents perpetrated by kids from the various state schools in our area.

The point is, you can’t generalise, and the notion that private schools are nurturing happy havens of intellectual growth while Comps are a pit of misery, despair and menace is delusional and tiresome.

State schools are hell...run, run I tell you.
Some children have never even set foot in Waitrose

No I'm saying that the comprehensive system is not full of virtue and not right for everyone. And that the decision to send kids to independent school can be about what's right for the child.

It also completely depends on what comprehensive schools are in your area - like I said in an earlier post on this thread, the memorial garden for the stab victims and van full of police on a regular basis didn't fill me with hope about the comp local to me when I lived in London (again, on paper, results were not too bad....)

'Our comp is fine so all comps are fine' is just as flawed as 'private is the only way'.

Hmm. should probably have pmed that.

I didn’t recognise that clue, so no

Every child has the right to visit Waitrose.
State schools are good and even outstanding.

From what I’ve seen, the kids in private and grammar schools do far more work than state school kids (generally speaking)
The private and grammar school kids get around 2 hrs hw per evening and more on the weekend with more focussed lessons in school.
My dc at an outstanding state school, gets about 4hrs per week and lessons are sometimes disrupted.

well I am not in London, so pardon me if this is irrelevant, but the main difference I have noticed is in the manners of pupils.

I was outside our local supermarket the other day, talking to a man who walked with a stick, some rugby boys from the public school over the mountain came running by...they actually pulled themselves up to a halt, so they didn't run between us, and muttered 'sorry sir'. They looked about 12 or 13.

Totally impressed!

The head of our primary told us 'never make your school decision based on behaviour you've seen on buses. They are all horrible on buses'.

My bus to work takes kids both to local inner-London secondaries and two top ranking public/private schools often mentioned on here. I've seen good and bad from both sides although nothing awful from anyone.

Although, your story reminds me, a friend of mine fell over in the street when heavily pregnant and several kids from the nearby top tier school went by without offering any help. When my friend was discharged from hospital, she called the school bursar to tell her about the experience as she was so upset and the school was addressed about the important of helping as a result.

International School London v Ellen Wilkinson School

Two choices, high fees or free.

London state schools are massively underfunded.
London state schools don’t play enough sport.
London state schools don’t produce good swimmers.
London state schools have language issues.
London state schools find the middle ground for all pupils.
London state schools lack support for SEN.
London state schools lack resources in IT and Science
London state schools lack resources in art and drama
London state schools have many demotivated teachers
London state schools have many motivated teachers
London state schools have a narrow curriculum
London state schools are losing good teachers
London state schools can’t afford a Pritt stick.

Huge problems no wonder people send their kids to independents.

Wow lord Walter what a massive list of generalisations.
Where’d you make that up from? Utter nonsense.
What authority do you have in knowing the funding of every state secondary in London? And the motivation of teachers across the board? Can’t believe you wasted time writing that list of BS

Lord Walter,

That is a frankly bizarre list.

Just for exam,ple:

The vast majority of truly good junior swimmers are club swimmers, not school swimmers. They train before school, after school, and at weekends, and the school they go to is frankly irrelevant.

SEN support is, IME, better in state than in private schools [as a state school, we receive a significant numbert of 'managed out' previously private school educated children with SEN]

the teachers we lost to private schools are ... not our best, and most state schools locally have a policy of simply not interviewing applicants who have taught at the private schools, as their skills, pedagogy and knowledge (at primary level at least) just aren't approppriate

The 'can't afford a Pritt stick' is, however, probably true. We buy cheap educational suppliers' Pritt stick lookalikes instead. it's glue, not a yardstick of a quality education.

My friend's daughter swims for her national team, and is in a London state school.

@LordWalterTheCourageous - not the state school my child attends.. Brilliant, funny, caring teachers who work so hard for the kids. If demotivated, they deserve an Oscar each!!

Almost all the children in my sons school go to private swimming lessons as well as school ones, bad behaviour is stamped on quickly and it is a very large diverse primary.
Houses are around 1m for a 3 bed and back on to council flats you would not know which children come from which as they are in clean, comfortable uniform.
Some of my eldest sons are off to private next year, some to church schools or selective, many are going to the same 3rd choice comp as my boy which has terrible offsted but a new headteacher and great facilities.
Should for some reason he not thrive there or turn out unhappy i wouldnt hesitate to look private, but a 20min bus ride at 11 is far more sensible imho than sending him across town. He could go further and fair worse.

Unless they fall into the "I don't want my kids mixing with the masses" brigade, parents who have a choice (which most don't) will choose a school depending on whether its good or bad -not whether its private or state. There are London private schools whose facilities and/or academic results are so poor that I wouldn't send my DCs there even if I could afford it. Similarly I wouldn't want them going to a failing comp if I had the choice although there is evidence that middle class kids in state schools achieve similar results to those in private schools.(Parents get confused by the results of a few super selectives like Westminster, Eton, St Pauls etc ignoring the fact that the kids who get into those schools are already Oxbridge potential). In fact due to the rise in affordable private tuition and the massive improvement/investment in state schools in London in the last 15-20 years, I think London state schools are a more attractive choice than they have been for decades.

I think London state schools are a more attractive choice than they have been for decades.

@stateschoolparent - I agree!

FanDabbyFloozy
not the state school my child attends.. Brilliant, funny, caring teachers who work so hard for the kids. If demotivated, they deserve an Oscar each!!

You forgot to mention that your child attends one of the most sought-after (super-selective, single sex) grammar schools in the country!

The school collects over £100,000 pa in voluntary contributions from parents by direct debit. Did you register your dc for any independent school entrance exams as a back-up?

Which school is it Clavinova?

@Clavinova I don't think we are speaking about the same school or the same child..

I have more than one child!

And no - I did not apply to any private school as a "back-up". Backup for what? I was going to be happy with any of the schools on our list.

Also can we avoid naming schools unless parents actually volunteer the info? There are many reasons why a school and a child should not be publicly linked.

I live in one of the most deprived areas of London.

I wouldn't want the send my children to the local secondaries as there is a lot of gang involvement, fighting, knife carrying and drug use. My eldest child has said they are afraid to go to the local secondary from what they have seen of these children leaving school.