What are STATE schools in London like?

[TeenTimesTwo]

I've been reading with mild interest the issue of exploding offers for CLGS.

But it made me wonder. From what I see in media (TV news, and papers), I have the impression that state schools in London have made great steps forward over the past 10-15 years and are now considered very good.

Is that true? Not just for schools with convoluted admissions criteria (like Grey Coats?) but on average for your ordinary run of the mill local secondary?

If so, why so much angst over applying to so many private schools? And the willingness to set up your 11 year olds for such long commutes? Is the education really so much better? Or is it 'snob value' or fear of the unknown, or 'because that's what my social circle does' or old reputations?

I'm also wondering what Oaty does when there's a medical treatment that is available only through NHS channels (as are most high level specialist treatments in the UK, due in part to the fact that specialist treatment relies on the doctors having lots and lots of experience to become specialist)?

In response to the funding argument - I live in a LA which is prime commuter distance to London, and has some very wealthy areas. House prices are expensive. Our per pupil funding (at primary) is considerably under £3000 for next year. There are people here who would give their right arm for London schools, let alone free transport to schools and the opportunities London affords.

What needs elaborating?

London schooling is not like the rest of the country, largely because of the population density. This applies to both sectors, of course. The private sector in London at secondary age is all selective, much of it fiercely so, unlike the rest of the country where the standards and practices can vary rather more, ditto preps in London).

My view is based on my direct experience (and I admit I'm less familiar with the north London schools). If there are examples of the practices you cite in private secondaries, I'd be interested in knowing about them. Because the sector does evolve, and practices might change. At present, I am not aware of any school which does weed inappropriately (i.e. other than by having minimum GCSE points for progression to sixth form) nor which has a reputation for doing so.

And I see them as different beasts, perhaps not in comparison to other big name schools and those in certain cities, but in comparison to all the general rest of them. It's not all favourable (smaller sites, less sports facilities, fewer purpose built theatres etc). But in terms of standards and outcomes, theynare excellent. Does it mean every pupil is always happy? No of course not - teens years can be tough whoever and wherever you are. But none have entrenched lacunae in pastoral care (and as they are predominantly day schools I'd expect it to be noticed and to be 'known' if they did).

Do you think London private secondaries are typical of all private secondaries? (I was wondering if that was what lay behind the question). If so, why?

( BTW "I wonder how many of the 7 per cent" that's the figure for all schools - for secondaries it's 10% (and I suspect the figure might differ again for London). Doubt you could land a helicopter at most (size constraints, or the no-fly zone ))

The Good Schools Guide lists 88 independent secondary schools that are not academically selective.

The private sector in London at secondary age is all selective, much of it fiercely so, unlike the rest of the country where the standards and practices can vary rather more
So you know all of the private schools in Birmingham and Manchester and Leeds/Bradford ??????
Really ??
Wow.
And you know every private secondary in London (0207/0208) and know that they are all selective ?
Really ??
Wow

88 non-selective in London. I am surprised -SlackPanther

I have never posted exactly why I know London schools, and am perfectly prepared to accept that my posts on Education threads might sometimes contain inaccuracies (usually by missing updates in some).

I am happy to agree that schools in Manchester and Birmingham are essentially the same as in London - you will notice I had already caveated remarks to include 'certain cities' - and there are some other places too.

If you think my posting record on private education shows an unacceptable level of inaccuracy, such that my direct experience and views formed from that, are worthless, then that's fine and I shall bow to your greater knowledge.

And would still like to know which London private secondaries have the dire problems you say exist, particularly (but not limited to) the unfair weeding you state is a problem there at present.

I've just been playing on the GSG site, and think I have replicated your search for 'non-selective'.

If you exclude schools for SEN, stage schools, Steiner schools, those delivering education in a language other than English; then you are left with a number of faith schools (Jewish, Islamic and some Christian sects) and I don't really know so much about them. I also excluded crammers and one interloping prep school that probably shouldn't have been on that list, plus those which are essentially FE with an optional earlier start age (because I really was talking about secondary schools in a fairly ordinary sense, not every permutation of where a teenager could attend). That left a handful of schools.

I've been looking at school websites, and found so far that they assess by own exam, CE, assessment day, and so I wouldn't call then 'non-selective'. None of them. Happy to accept a different definition though.

Clearly this is evidence that there are categories of London private secondary which I'm not familiar with. I was thinking of mainstream, and should have caveatted more carefully. So again, will leave it to anyone else with a better grasp to comment.

My friend's son got chucked out of his selective private school in year 9 on a pretext when his grades were slipping because of time out for medical reasons. Is that the sort of thing that you're discussing? He found out that other parents at that school had had similar experiences.

@TalkInPeace Without knowing all of them, I can still say you have to go through 32 London independents and half a dozen state schools before you get to the top performing school in West Yorkshire. I know league tables aren't everything but, yes, the market is a bit different here. GSAL/BGS/QEGS don't charge a massive amount less than London indies either.

I think I ticked the ‘mainstream’ filter, and 12-16 because including 11 put prep schools in tne list. There were a lot of faith schools, true, but lots with names like Eaton Sq and Chepstow.

Funny that in the highest scoring GCSE results for independent schools on the DFE tables I see
Manchester Girls' Grammar
Twycross
Wakefield Girls High
Nottingham GDST
Salesian
and many others that are a very long way from London

Eaton Square is a prep, which goes to 13, and which might still be non-selective for entry to lower school, but all pupils in the school and new joiners must pass exam to progress to the upper school.

Do those tables include iGCSE? Where is St Ethelburgas, according to that table?

And as this thread is about London schools, what are the top 10 of London schools?

The top ten schools in London

Tiffin Girls’ School, Kingston upon Thames

Queen Elizabeth’s School, Barnet

Nonsuch High School for Girls, Sutton

Wallington County Grammar School, Sutton

St Olave’s and St Saviour’s Grammar school, Bromley

Wilson’s School, Sutton

Ilford County High School, Redbridge

St Michael’s Catholic Grammar School, Barnet

Townley Grammar School, Bexley

The Latymer School, Enfield

Source the evening standard 😶

Don’t know about the Ilford one but all the others are highly selective

And most of them I’d hardly call “London” either!!!

Is that top 10 state schools or top 10 all schools?

And what data are they using for the ranking?

That's the top ten state schools. Sunday Times do a list of independent schools ranked by combined GCSE/A level, which is what I was going off @TalkInPeace

Gowgirl is this the most recent league table? GCSEs or A Levels? Or combined performance list? I'm surprised that Tiffin Boys isn't in that list (particularly as Wallington County Grammar School, Sutton is - generally considered to be less high performing). Please could you provide the link? They're all in London boroughs too Taffeta. It all depends what your definition of London is too.

Sorry, I've just found the link. It's GCSEs - wouldn't A Levels be a better indication?

I think all 10 are grammars.

It was a quick google search, but i believe it is state schools at gcse.
I was a bit surprised at some of them too.

@londonista
GDST schools are NOT state ...nor is Salesian
in fact I ticked the "independent box
all the schools I mentioned are FEE PAYING

and frankly a list in a newspaper versus the DFE tables - I know which I trust

Here is the link to the table
www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&schooltype=Independent%20School&phase=secondary&for=secondary&basedon=English%20%26%20maths%20GCSEs&show=All%20pupils%20%26%20prior%20attainment

OK @TalkinPeace, you look at the tables that measure 5+ GCSEs at A-C and I'll look at the ones that measure %age of A*/As at GCSE and A-level.

londonista
A*/As at GCSE Yours will be out of date then.
And not validated by the DFE

The link was to the 2017 results - where A* is not used ....

Nice one, Peace. You do know that site doesn't measure the vast majority of independent schools? Try putting a few in the search box if you don't believe me.