Grammar school areas.... thoughts?

[Fleetfox56]

Those who live in grammar school towns/cities, are you glad you do? We do and our DC will sit 11 plus a year in Sept if she chooses to do so. However, I grew up in this town and went to this school. All girls, quite pressurised and thinks a lot of itself. I’m not sure it’s what I want for her....

We do have crazy dreams of moving away but whether we can realise them or not still remains to be seen.

Just wondered what other people’s thoughts were on grammar system, single-sex secondary schools etc...

A 'comp' in a selective area is a secondary modern. And the truth is that selective areas are not 'grammar' areas, but secondary modern areas as the majority of children don't attend grammars.

Strange that nobody ever calls for a return to secondary moderns.

Personally I'd call it a Secondary Modern and I think many of the teachers in them do too, regardless of the actual name. Most areas don't use that term now, as they think it has negative connotations, but instead Uppers or something else, like Comps - although on internal borough documentation they are often still referred to as sec mods.

Don't have DC. Helped organise a lot of school appeals for grammar schools. It was horrible. Parents were so disappointed. Some you could tell the level of pressure they had placed on their children through tutors (who couldn't believe they hadn't passed.) others seemed guilty because they felt that if they had been rich enough for a tutor their child would have passed.

This was an area where some of the other schools (not all) were great.

Thanks, sorry had no idea that comps weren’t comps if in grammar area. I’d never really thought about it tbh.

“Selective education is socially and psychologically damaging for all concerned. “

I agree with this. And I went to a Grammar. It was utterly stultifying, and although it was academic and we did the Arts (in a nice ‘accomplishments for young ladies ‘ kind of way) it was uncreative. It supported cosy, achieving conformist thinking. Monocultural. Heady days when I escaped to Uni!

I am now delighted that my kids go to a comp such as BobbyBobbins teaches in. Dc1 is a late summer born boy who I think at 10 would not have got into the super-selectives that are dotted about beyond our borough boundary, but he is now a top performing Yr 11 with a list of GCSE results way better than some of his friends who did get into those schools. (Many but not all highly tutored) Most of his top set comp peers are the same.

It’s enough to tell me that selection at 10 is way too meaningless to base a whole school system on.

Lizard - yeah yeah but you don’t live in a fully grammar county

It a totally different kettle of fish when you have outstanding grammars vs failing Dec moderns

sec modems

sec moderns!!!!

I live on the edge of a Grammar area and my son is y6. This year has been a huge eye opener for me and not in a good way! My son did one test - against my better judgement - and scraped a pass. He is in the top groups of his primary school which is far and away the best primary in the borough. He is clever and loves learning - and he wasn’t tutored. (He loved one of the schools which is why he wanted to take the test but I’m still not convinced it’s worth the travel time - as others have said.)

I would say 90% of the kids taking the tests are tutored, possibly more. Many start in year 3. I know some families who are spending £400+ a month on tutors. They’re mostly around £50 an hour. One child in my son’s class was tutored from y3, took three tests, didn’t pass any, and cried every day for weeks after the results came out.

The days of grammar schools being for clever, poor kids are LONG gone in my opinion (if they ever existed). They’re for middle class, wealthier families who can afford to tutor (I consider us to be pretty well off - we’re doing okay - but we couldn’t have afforded to tutor, if we’d wanted to).

It’s a horribly shitty system that I don’t believe benefits the kids. I would steer well clear.

Taffeta: exactly! I am glad we have true comps not pretend-comps that are sec moderns.

I would not willingly move to a Secondary Modern County, as I believe Kent is, for example.

Though when Londoners say they are moving to Kent I have noticed they don’t say “We’re moving for the Secondary Modern Schools”

Though when Londoners say they are moving to Kent I have noticed they don’t say “We’re moving for the Secondary Modern Schools”

Anyone know of the top of their heads which areas in south are true comp areas? We have been looking at East/West Sussex.... but could also consider other commuter places. DH works in London.

Thanks for all your posts. So interesting to get everyone’s views.

ds and dd1 both go to super selectives and dd2 will take 11+ this september.

I have very mixed feelings about the system on the whole, we live just outside the grammar area in a large town with crap schools. There are about 10 secondary schools we coudl apply to and of those I would only consider 2 to be worth attending and even those are not high on my list of favourites. Our town has a poor education record.

So, we are close to the county boundary and it turns out there are a girls and boys grammar within accessible distance in another town.

I jumped at the chance and entered my dcs and they got in.

These are not really high powerd pressured schools despite being superselective, and the thing that swung it for me with both schools was visiting them. Ds is very peer driven and I wanted him in a place where it is cool to be clever. His attitude towards school and learning has been transformed by being amongst a group where good education and high expectations are the norm.
For dd, the single sex school was a big draw, and as she is quite quirky, it has suited her extremely well.

BUT the contrast for us wasn't so much grammar v. comp, it was grammar in nice leafy town, v. comp in crap town where we live. In other towns around there are good comps, but we can't get into them, and we can't afford to move.

Watch E Sussex near Kent border as anywhere near border effectively becomes affected ie scramble for grammar places over border leaving “comps” without top set

If you avoid Kent, Bucks and their surrounding areas you’ll be ok

Thanks Taffeta. 👍🏻

Grammar school area here. Single sex & mixed - girls single sex grammar just been voted by The Times as the best school in the country.

Vast majority of parents tutor (just for yr5, tests taken at start of yr 6). Lots of prep school children taking entrance tests too. Parents generally quite pushy, schools striving for best results - overall result is that all local schools (grammars and secondary moderns) are out performing comps in neighbouring areas where there are no grammars.

Pressure? We really tried to manage it. Only really felt it as a family because we have twins. One was probably a sure thing, the other really depended on how it went on the day.

Both passed. They do feel pressure to perform and study (now 13) but I don't think that's a bad thing. It's not so bad it's detrimental. We talk about it (as school does) as maximising an opportunity and hard work should reap a benefit. That's the same message I'm sure most schools give.

I went to a grammar school but thankfully now live in a fully comprehensive area. I do not want my DDs future dictated by one test they sit on one day when they are 10. It wasn’t a big deal when I did mine, no one really tutored.

As for fully comprehensive areas - Hampshire! Alton, Petersfield, Liphook and Winchester are all commutable to London and have great schools. (Mr Hinds’ own constituency no less - introducing grammar schools would be extremely unpopular as the comprehensives are fantastic.)

We're in a SE town with one boys' and one girls' grammar school - they are both quite small schools and have a large catchment (+12 miles), kids come from a wide area. Our local schools are massive and are not hugely affected by the "loss" of grammar kids I think.

If you're interested in any grammar school, I think it would be a mistake to not prepare your child for the 11+ test - whether you help them yourself or pay someone else to help them. The sheer number of candidates sitting the tests these days makes it far more difficult to differentiate between the "naturally bright" and the "naturally bright and familiar with test formats" kids.

In theory I'm pro-comprehensive education. But in reality, given the "choices" I had for my kids, we chose to attempt the 11+ and got into the superselective grammar.

My kids have enjoyed it, I don't think they're experiencing any more pressure than if they were at any other school (they're all self-driven perfectionists, so the pressure comes from within, despite my attempts to downplay grades and not apply any pressure )

Prepared my daughter for Birmingham grammar. She was finding school a little boring at the time. Used CGP/Bond books and reading some poems excerpts from books. She got herself an AP at a private school. But I dont think she would have done this without prep. Depends what your child is like though, if they don't want to do it you can't force them. We are lucky where I live as most of the schools are pretty good and if she had ended up at local comp would have been fine with that. My DDs cousin lives in another area in catchment for failing school. My SIL is terrified he will be offered that. She would be glad to live in area with grammar to give him a better chance

"She would be glad to live in area with grammar to give him a better chance"
or a good comp?

Either really its just that catchments for grammars are bigger generally

DD goes to a superselective grammar, not overly happy there. Not much effect on the comps as takes from a huge area so out of each comp of say 220 per year maybe 4 are missing but suspect in other areas some of these would go private so maybe talking about 1 child a year difference. DS is going to the comp, didn't try for grammar as boys is far, will be interesting to see the difference. May then move DD if still unhappy.

My Dd had four months of tutoring. She's bright but more importantly, she isn't motivated. She's quiet and (lazy) unconfident. She missed grammar by a smidge which is the right thing for her. She will go to an outstanding sec mod (affiliated to a grammar!)
My DS has three more years. He is a sponge. He absorbs everything shown him. He absolutely needs to go to grammar. He's naturally sharp and bright. Not sure about motivated!

Finding a town that suits your family when your children are very different must surely be a factor?

I did move. From one grammar area to another because the first one was far more of a gamble for both my children (no appeal process) and the second had superior sec mods.

I think Hampshire is a good commutable fully comp area.

I’m in the same area as namechangedtoday15.

Parents start being a nightmare and getting their knickers in a twist about getting into GS from Reception. Some feel entitled because they’ve bought a house in a GS area. They also believe state primaries should be responsible for getting their child to GS. It brings out the worst in people, puts pressure on the children. Results day is horrible. It’s divisive and causes problems for children. Some feel they have ‘failed’.

It’s a test of speed and accuracy. Children are in line crying, i’ve Known some vomit before they go on. There are always one or two ‘safe bets’ who don’t make and everyone is astounded. Parents and children in tears in the playground.

I don’t know if I would do it again. I don’t know if I should have done it in the first place.

I went off on a complete tangent...

What I meant to say was: keep your head down and don’t listen/engage with the mild hysteria which starts fizzing up in Foundation. Experience has taught me to keep my head down and mouth shut. I’ve gone through the process a few times, and I keep on the outside of it all.