Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

UKMT maths challenges

40 replies

Astronotus · 30/01/2018 08:11

Our school always run these first thing in the morning. Other schools hold the test in the afternoon. Is this ethical, as many of the questions are being discussed on the internet by then?

OP posts:
Taffeta · 30/01/2018 08:13

It’s the same with any test

11+ in Kent is sat for Kent residents midweek and out of area a few days later

How unfair is that?!

Original poster
Astronotus · 30/01/2018 08:53

I didn't know that Taffeta. Surely it can't be the same paper set?

OP posts:
Taffeta · 30/01/2018 10:57

It’s exactly the same. Sad

Original poster
Astronotus · 30/01/2018 13:44

Kent test - seems rather iffy legalwise!

I just wish schools would play fair with the UKMT challenges and run them all in the mornings.

OP posts:
GHGN · 30/01/2018 22:20

UKMT states that as long as it is done on the day then it is fine. Most students take this like a bit of fun/inconvenience depends on how they see it. A few would take it seriously if they are aiming for a gold or later round.

AtiaoftheJulii · 30/01/2018 22:26

Those who take them seriously seem very serious about not discussing them until the next day, ime! Have you seen a lot of such discussion?

For the challenges, it would be very hard to remember and reproduce enough questions to make much difference, I would have thought.

Original poster
Astronotus · 30/01/2018 22:56

The answers are multiple choice.

OP posts:
AtiaoftheJulii · 30/01/2018 22:58

Yes, I know. Are you suggesting that someone who thinks they've got the answers right writes a list of the letters then puts it online for other people to smuggle in to their sitting?

grindel · 30/01/2018 23:07

Why would anyone do that? What's the incentive? I'm prepared to be enlightened but would anyone bother for the Ukmt? It's great when Kids do well but it's not like there's anything riding on it.

GreenTulips · 30/01/2018 23:14

Strange thing to worry about!

DD got to gold in year 7 and is hoping for a higher place this year - I doubt any kids actually give much of a flying fig

AtiaoftheJulii · 30/01/2018 23:25

Yeah, like GHGN says, fun or inconvenience. If it's fun, cheating would take the fun out of it; if it's an inconvenience, why bother cheating?

Julie8008 · 31/01/2018 01:00

I cant see how it makes any difference. How many kids can get on the internet during school lunchtime to tell random strangers answers to questions they might or might not have memorised correctly in the test with answers that also might or might not have been worked out correctly, all under time constraints. And as they use negative marking anything less than a certainty and your as likely to lose marks as you are to gain them. There is no academic or financial gain.

Just look on student room and see how hard it is to get the questions & answers for GCSE papers weeks after they have been sat.

Or have they secretly photographed the questions?

noblegiraffe · 31/01/2018 10:48

The reward for doing really well is entry to the next round with harder questions. Not sure how many would cheat for the opportunity to sit another exam.

Taffeta · 31/01/2018 11:06

Internet fora are pretty good at shutting down anyone trying to discuss the Kent test questions.

GiraffesCantDoMentalArithmetic · 31/01/2018 11:10

I organise the maths challenge at my school. the timing depends on the following:
When the hall is available
When I can arrange for the desks and chairs to be put out
When I can get teachers to invigilate
When the pupils will be missing the least disruptive lessons

If I didn't consider all of the above, the maths challenge would piss off all my colleagues and I would have to pass on the cost of external invigilation to parents (of lots of pupils who don't even want to do it). Basically, we wouldn't be able to do the challenge at all.

Original poster
Astronotus · 31/01/2018 12:30

GiraffesCant. Good point about the organisation of it. Never thought of that. Pity you have lot of pupils who don't want to do it.
Noblegiraffe. Kudos of school for getting high number of certificates and pupils through to the next round? Good for marketing?
Taffeta. Still shocked Kent test is the same one. I'm interested. Set up another thread and I will definitely join it.

OP posts:
Hardwickwhite · 31/01/2018 12:33

DDs school has the same issues as Giraffes it simply wouldn't happen during school hours. We have had fun winding DD up about her forthcoming maths detention though...

Clavinova · 31/01/2018 12:34

Perhaps this will reassure you op - just copied this post from the student room forum - posted on the morning of the senior maths challenge in November:

I believe this thread is being closed until tonight to avoid discussion of answers enabling others to cheat. I'll be closing this thread when I get to school if it hasn't been closed by that point. Please don't go and find other threads to discuss your answers on

AtiaoftheJulii · 31/01/2018 17:24

Kudos of school for getting high number of certificates and pupils through to the next round?

Are you now suggesting that schools do this on purpose and might encourage their pupils to find out questions/answers??? Think you might be getting a bit carried away!

Do you have a DC doing the Intermediate Challenge tomorrow?

sandybayley · 31/01/2018 17:30

Agree with Atia - yes doIng well at UKMT is a great achievement for individual pupils but hardly worth a school risking their reputation to cheat.

The only audience it would matter to would be parents of prodigiously talented mathematicians and I suspect they'd be asking for slightly more robust evidence!

Good luck to all those DC sitting the intermediate challenge tomorrow - either in the morning or afternoon!

Taffeta · 31/01/2018 17:41

Op - mine have both done it so I’m not as frothy about it as I used to be!
And tbh, not sure how else it could be done, given it’s age standardised etc and the marks depend on everyone doing the same test.

GreenTulips · 31/01/2018 18:09

Pity you have lot of pupils who don't want to do it

In what way is it a pity?

PookieSnackenberger · 31/01/2018 18:16

Honestly I'd be amazed if anyone can be bothered to cheat as, whilst it's nice to know you're a dazzling mathematician, it doesn't really mean that much. A way of recognising excellence but that's about it.

My older 3 have all taken part. DS2 is an exceptional mathematician and turned up to school (late), was pulled out of lessons and his teacher plonked the paper in front of him. No preparation and no fuss. They have participated in the Kangaroo as well - again no big fuss.

I suggested DS2 include it in his UCAS statement and he laughed at me!

AtiaoftheJulii · 31/01/2018 19:31

I might include intermediate Olympiad participation, definitely BMO participation, but not Kangaroo.

it doesn't really mean that much

What??? Ds has had a couple of book prizes, he's the envy of his peers! GrinGrinGrin

GHGN · 31/01/2018 19:39

Some of my students have got to the Olympiad round and got book prizes, medals and recognition. A couple of them were able to travel to oversea to train and one may represent their country this year.
It all started with a gold certificate when they were in year 9/10.

If some kids can get medals for sport, so can mathematicians.