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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Best place to live in Kent for Grammar school

750 replies

vik2017 · 30/10/2017 15:31

Hi,
This is my first question on this board....Smile
and I wanted to know which is the best place to live in Kent and falls into Grammar catchment area and also if my son dont get to the Grammar at least will go to a very good comprehensive school.
Any suggestion will be appreciated even suggest to move to another place considering we both work in London.

Many thanks in advance...
Viki

OP posts:
nancy75 · 02/11/2017 14:46

The system is awful. Destructive, divisive, unfair-particularly to children from disadvantaged backgrounds. Just hideous.

The system is not awful everywhere - as mentioned before Bromley has very good options that are not grammar. I know a number of children that didn't sit grammar tests because our local schools are very good without the pressure of being super selective. DD has a few friends that said no to Newstead and instead chose their local non Grammar school. Kent is a huge area - not everywhere is the same.

Clavinova · 02/11/2017 14:47

StealthNinjaMum
Very few grammar schools in Kent need extensive tutoring for - almost 30% of dc attend grammar schools in Kent - they are not all tutored up to their eyeballs! I know several boys who passed for Skinners and Judd who had not been taught Level 6 maths. VR and NVR can easily be covered over the summer holidays for a bright child.

Taffeta · 02/11/2017 14:48

Bromley isn’t in Kent for the purposes of the 11+ though, is it?

UsernameMum · 02/11/2017 14:48

I don’t think I could have summed up the system of Kent state education any more perfectly than Stealth has just done above. I am a life long Kent resident and not about to move so have to suck it up. However I wouldn’t choose to move here if I don’t have to (not that Kent isn’t a super place to live otherwise of course!).

nancy75 · 02/11/2017 14:52

Bromley isn’t in Kent for the purposes of the 11+ though, is it?

The op asked where she could move to get her child a grammar place or failing that a good secondary within easy distance of London. Bromley has access to grammar schools, the local super selectives and also has good secondary schools. The op asked about moving to Kent and Bromley is in Kent.

Clavinova · 02/11/2017 14:55

BertrandRussell
The system is awful. Destructive, divisive, unfair-particularly to children from disadvantaged backgrounds. Just hideous

You are fine with advantaged dc being 'bussed out' to better comprehensive schools then? I notice that you never comment on this.

Taffeta · 02/11/2017 14:58

Yes I realise that Nancy but in your post you were replying to Bertrand’s point about the divisiveness of the system in Kent, and you said not everywhere in Kent was like that.

I was just making it clear that whilst Bromley would probably be an excellent place for the OP to consider, it’s not part of the Kent test area for the purposes of the 11+, and therefore it doesn’t really make sense to reply to Bertrand’s comments about the Kent education system by talking about it.

UsernameMum · 02/11/2017 14:58

Of course some DC do minimal prep and are succesful Clarinova but the point is that this is a big risk and if you are at a school where everyone is tutoring and stressing you tend to get sucked into that too. As many cases there are of DC passing with no real prep there are also the top table kids whose parents have done nothing who are not passing by 2 marks and not going to grammar school. Parents with the money and inclination to help are going to do all they can to help their DC pass. With a few exceptions ther is a massive gulf between the school experiences of kids in the grammars and non-grammars. eg. No of GCSEs sat, triple Science, languages learnt, duke of Edinburgh, CCF, being in a school where you don’t have to pretend to dumb down to be a cool kid....

MumTryingHerBest · 02/11/2017 15:00

Clavinova Because you said, DC...suffer disappointment and emotional issues (not passing 11+).

Those left behind are too stupid to know what they are missing I suppose.

Can you explain to me, in more simple terms, why you suppose those left behind are too stupid... off the back of me making a comment about the dissapointment DCs feel after spending one or more years peparing for a test, only to be told they failed/didn't do well enough so they have to go to the school no one else wants?

BertrandRussell · 02/11/2017 15:00

"You are fine with advantaged dc being 'bussed out' to better comprehensive schools then? I notice that you never comment on this"

I object to this too. I have frequently said I am in favour of some sort of fair banding/lottery system. However, middle class parents gaming the comprehensive system which I understand is an issue in some areas is different to an actual system which is by definition unfair.

Clavinova · 02/11/2017 15:01

StealthNinjaMum
I believe dd gets too much homework already (about 4 hours a week), about 40 words a week to learn (but this might be normal I don't know) and another 1 or 2 hours of 11+. She is quite relaxed in herself because she gets 80 - 100% in tests but she is aware that she could have a bad day and fail and affect her whole life

Who is setting the homework? Is this for SATs or the 11+? If your dd is already scoring 80-100% in tests, why are you making her do so much?

Clavinova · 02/11/2017 15:13

UsernameMum
I am not suggesting no real prep at all - but there is a limit.

Clavinova · 02/11/2017 15:25

BertrandRussell
How would a lottery/fair banding system help with travel costs in Kent or Hampshire?

MumTryingHerBest
You are assuming that dc in second rate comprehensive schools do not realise they attend second rate schools.

vik2017 · 02/11/2017 15:26

@StealthNinjaMum: so if you had read the same thread would you choose something different if yes, what would it be?

Thanks...

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 02/11/2017 15:28

"MumTryingHerBest
You are assuming that dc in second rate comprehensive schools do not realise they attend second rate schools."
Well, they haven't been told publically that they haven't made the grade. They haven't failed a test.

Waits for the usual "they will only feel as if they have failed a test if their parents handle it badly"

StealthNinjaMum · 02/11/2017 16:54

Dd's homework is set by school so not my choice. I understand the spelling lists (about 30 a week) are national curriculum so presumably all kids get that - but let me know if I'm wrong.

I am making my daughter have a tutor and do some tests because there are something like 20 different types of verbal reasoning tests (I'm not sure of the exact number) and lots of non verbal reasoning tests and spacial tests. Also she will be tested on year 6 maths and as she will be a few days into year 6 she won't have studied much. I don't understand how children can pass papers for which they haven't studied some of the curriculum. Dds school covers one year 6 maths topic in year 5 but there are a few local schools (both state and private) that actually do do year 6 maths for years 5 and so dd is competing with children who have studied more maths at school.

Also there's technique. The 11+ test gives you 30 seconds to answer a question so you do need to practice and learn when to move onto the next question. Sometimes dd takes longer doing her homework wanting to get the questions right and she needs to learn the balance between speed and accuracy.

I get that many parents don''t make their kids do that much but as Usermum suggests it seems to me like there's an arms race whereby one parent gets a tutor and everyone follows and people get anxious and start pushing their child more. And i never believed mumsnet threads that said that parents denied having a tutor when they do but dd tells me that some of her friends really have a tutor despite the mum denying it. (Not many, most of my friends are fairly honest, but there are a couple).

I resisted getting her a tutor for a long time because I didn't feel we needed it, then I looked at samples of tests, and realised that every other child I knew had a tutor and in July set about finding one. I think the children who don't have tutors probably do practice papers with their parents but dd is more likely to listen to a tutor than me and also I can't teach her modern methods.

Despite this I think we are under less pressure than friends who can't afford private and so I think dd is more relaxed than some of her friends. I would prefer her to go to a state school (like me) so grammar is my preference but I know I am lucky to have the choice.

If I had started a thread like this a few years ago I probably would have looked for towns with good access to London not in 11+ areas - at the end of the day dhs job is in London so we are restricted. I have no idea what schools are like in Sussex or Essex but would have considered them and looked at results and added value.

MumTryingHerBest · 02/11/2017 17:31

"Clavinova - You are assuming that dc in second rate comprehensive schools do not realise they attend second rate schools.*

Can you highlight the post I'm supposed to have made commenting on how DCs in second rate comprehensive schools feel.

Taffeta · 02/11/2017 17:38

Stealth - you forgot the parents who brag about not tutoring. “We’d never pay , if they can’t pass without a tutor they shouldn’t be in a grammar school!” whilst secretly subjecting their DC to hours and hours of parental tutoring.

MumTryingHerBest · 02/11/2017 17:54

Taffeta - not to mention the parents who only did "a tiny bit of familiarisation" for an hour or two a week, every week, for a year or two.

roundaboutthetown · 02/11/2017 17:58

When it comes down to it, many parents in Kent do put a ridiculous amount of pressure on their children to practice for the Kent test - a very silly little test asking stupid questions of no great value to you in the long term unless you pass - so a colossal waste of emotional energy for those who take it and fail to make the grade. There are so many more valuable ways to spend your childhood and more valuable skills to learn, ways which will be of long term use to your development, even if you fail that ludicrous test. Children who spend hours a week practising for it are missing out on other more valuable experiences, so of course it is gutting if they don't get into the schools they were aiming for.

Taffeta · 02/11/2017 18:06

Guessing you don’t live in Kent, round Hmm

BertrandRussell · 02/11/2017 18:09

Grin @round.

Guessing you're In the"tiny bit if familiarisation" camp.....

Taffeta · 02/11/2017 18:26

“asking stupid questions of no great value”

I’m guessing you know bugger all about the current Kent test. The English and Maths papers are based on the national curriculum. Maybe you think the national curriculum is of no great value and children should be out on their bikes or swinging from the trees instead of learning Maths and English?

roundaboutthetown · 02/11/2017 18:57

I grew up in Kent and have family in Kent, ta very much. I wouldn't touch Kent with a bargepole to live in with my children.

Taffeta · 02/11/2017 18:59

I think you need to update your knowledge of the detail of the test and the culture surrounding it. It sounds like your knowledge is out of date and any recent experience is third hand.