Best place to live in Kent for Grammar school

[vik2017]

Hi,
This is my first question on this board....
and I wanted to know which is the best place to live in Kent and falls into Grammar catchment area and also if my son dont get to the Grammar at least will go to a very good comprehensive school.
Any suggestion will be appreciated even suggest to move to another place considering we both work in London.

Many thanks in advance...
Viki

Is their some correlation between having a higher % of pupils admitted to grammar and relative success for the non selective schools.

I suspect there may be better correlation between relative success for non-selective schools and affluence of area? A sort of all secondary schools in England by %PP children gives those with the lowest %PP as almost all Outstanding, whereas those with the highest %PP as almost all RI or in SM - so the correlation between relative deprivation of the pupils and the outcomes for the school is quite strong.

Dismissing an entire sector because of a couple of anecdotes is a bit daft.

Exactly, and that was not what I was attempting to do.

I know you weren't, cant. I was referring to the suggestion that "nice" girls who go to mixed 6th forms meet unsuitable boys and end up having babies called Chanel and living on benefits.........

Another thing that probably be no surprise to anybody the Kent grammar schools with the lowest FSM % is Skinners with 0.6 % 6 pupils and Tonbridge grammar with 1% and 9 pupils.

The highest FSM % is Dane Court Grammar with 6.4% FSM and 82 students eligible .

“This is the point I am trying to make that classmates and their behaviour does matter because it is quite hard to concentrate on studies when class is mostly disruptive. I am not generalising all the comps but percentage is definitely more than grammars....”

In a divisive system like Kent: yes, probably. What I am saying is that in my comp area / school the high achievers are within the comp, contribute to a ‘tone’, and because you also have quite ‘streetwise ‘ high attainers also establish that it is cool to be clever.

How do you account for the fact that overall Grammar counties do not get better average results than non Grammar?

Another thing to bear in mind: in my experience and observation of the schools round here: it is actually the ones with a higher number of confident precocious kids with access to lots of pocket money (a high % of the Grammar demography) who can afford to buy and use drugs at parties etc. It is a much bigger problem in the more middle class school than ours.

Move into a Grammar area deliberately by all means . But just know that if your Dc doesn’t make it to the Grammar, you may be worse off than in a comp area.

Of course the appeals thread is Bucks centric. Bucks is a fully selective County

So is Kent!!!!!

The highest FSM % is Dane Court Grammar with 6.4% FSM and 82 students eligible .

Given that the national average is nearly 30% (for the Ever6 measure of PP), that is still very low. It would be interesting to know what the actual local % was, using the weighted average (weighted by number of pupils in each type of school) of the different schools serving the area. My suspicion would be that the secondary moderns serving the same area would have a MUCH higher %, and that the local average may well be at or even slightly above the national average.

(AFAI remember, from when I did the analysis, if your %PP is less than 5%, then you are highly likely to also have an Outstanding rating. If you have over 50%, it is highly likely that you will have a rating of SM or RI. In between, and for specific schools - London schools with high %PP buck the trend because they have per pupil funding WAY above schools elsewhere, and Catholic schools do well - it is more variable)

The highest FSM % is Dane Court Grammar with 6.4% FSM and 82 students eligible
Given that the national average is nearly 30% (for the Ever6 measure of PP), that is still very low

FSM % at Dane Court Grammar Ever6 is 14.5%
Dartford Grammar for Boys is 14.1%
Mayfield 9.1%

So still under half the national average - how does it compare to their nearest secondary moderns?

For instance it suggests Kent has 28.4% of its pupils at grammar school not 26% as widely believed

I always thought it was about 28% including Headteacher reviews.

Interestingly Lincolnshire has 22.7% of its pupils educated in its grammar schools

Lincolnshire probably has too many grammar schools for its low population and high levels of deprivation - some Lincolnshire grammar schools have as many middle attainers as high attainers. If it didn't have the grammar schools though, it could easily be the next Knowsley or Isle of Wight - ie. a bad education for all.

So still under half the national average - how does it compare to their nearest secondary moderns?

Plenty of comprehensive schools have less than 10% fsm - and a nearby comp with 40% fsm.

"Plenty of comprehensive schools have less than 10% fsm - and a nearby comp with 40% fsm."
I would be surprised if there are many proper comprehensive schools with 10% FSM. But the point is not relevant to Kent which has many areas of significant social deprivation, and where many high schools have pushing 50% FSM- and many grammar schools with pushing 0%

If you prefer, another way of looking at it is to compare the grammar with its 3/4 nearest primary schools - ie the %PP in its surrounding area.

If the grammar school has the same %PP as its surrounding primaries, then it is representative of its area, in the same way as a comprehensive would be. If it is different, then it is not representative of its surrounding areas.

So a true comprehensive situated in an area where all primaries in its catchment have an average of 10% PP may have 10%PP - it remains a comprehensive, as there are no barriers other than catchment for applicants to attend the school, even if a neighbouring comprehensive is situated in an area where the average %PP is 40% and so it has 40% PP.

A grammar with 10% PP based in an area where the primaries have an average of 25% PP is a different proposition.

Our town is a good example. A grammar and a high school about a mile apart. All the local primary schools send roughly the same nobler of children to each proportionately. One school has nearly 40%fsm -the other under 2%. Guess which is which.

So, Dane Court: nearest non-grammar is Charles Dickens, which is literally a couple of streets away so if both were comprehensives they would both serve the same catchments: Ever6 is 34.7%.

Upton Junior School, very close to both, has an Ever6 of 27%, suggesting that the more deprived art of its intake goes to Charles Dickens, and the less deprived is disproportionately represented at the Grammar school.

Bertrand
I would be surprised if there are many proper comprehensive schools with 10% FSM
I wouldn't
because there are comps which are in pretty wealth areas so FSM in the area will be under 10%

And yes, I hold my hand up as the comp parent who swerved a bad school.
Because I believe every parent should swerve that school until it is handed to a competent management team.
It will never be a "good school" - the catchment puts paid to that
whole catchment is in MDI categories 7, 8 and 9 .. mostly 9
but it could be a lot better
and not have 400 empty spaces

roundaboutthetown And of course all parents want to be able to keep their children safe from disruptive influences.

Like this parent:

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=52455

I wonder if this parent was sold on an image of Grammar schools as portrayed on MN.

One of my friends works in an all boys selective school and there is certainly plenty of low level disruption. From what I can tell, a lot of parents at that school are more interested in their DCs predicated grades than the problems they are causing in class.

Betrand
I just checked the Hampshire comps for FSM
The lowest rated is 5.7% and its drumroll please Thornden
Four others are under 10% including Court Moor, Bohunt and Perins - they all reflect their areas pretty accurately.
Under 15% are another 22 Comps .... and they reflect their areas
The Hampshire Average for all secondary schools is 19.8%

@roundaboutthetown , I dont think you should be commenting about having me done the home school. I am not getting what am doing wrong if just thinking straight about DS education. There is difference in disruptive (common) and mostly disruptive class and there are less chances in grammar which is well known fact. Everyone in her life try to minimise the risk/problems which does not mean they are doing anything wrong or being selfish. When people go for walk they avoid walking after midnight that just means you are minimising the risk of any wrong happening...nothing rocket science and I am trying to exactly same...

just thinking straight about DS education

I agree that you are thinking along the same lines as many who are fairly uninformed about education - but not necessarily 'straight'.

there are less chances in grammar which is well known fact

Are you sure? Are you sure it is true in the classes your child would be in - ie top sets if you think they are grammar material? I took DS to see a boys' grammar school in action. He (and I) were terrified by what we saw in the corridors. He has spent over 5 very happy years in a mixed comprehensive, no reports of any disruption in his classes.

minimising the risk of any wrong happening

If you move to a fully selective area like Kent and 'wrong happens' - ie your child fails the 11+ (given its 20% chance of assigning your child to a wrong school, this is actually quite a high risk) - then actually you have deliberately taken a big risk. If you move to a fully comprehensive area, near good schools and with good private options, then the risk of 'wrong happening' is MUCH lower.

mostly disruptive class and there are less chances in grammar which is well known fact
Do you have the link to evidence which backs up your "fact"

My school was a nightmare for disruption and truanting and exclusions and inappropriate behaviour
but then it was selective fee paying rather than grammar

@cantkeepawayforever : Are you sure? Are you sure it is true in the classes your child would be in - ie top sets
I never said grammars are 100% perfect I just said there are less chances and it is also definitely possible that some comps are better than some grammar but not in majority.
If you move to a fully selective area like Kent and 'wrong happens'
That is why I have taken the advise and thinking better to move to Bexely (mix of comps and grammar).

No you are not, you are making paranoid assessments of the situation. Low level disruption is really the most disruptive, as chair throwing children and otherwise really troublesome children will not be allowed to stay in the classroom at all. Believe you me, grammar schools have plenty of low level disruption. It's all about how well that low level disruption, which occurs in 100% of schools, is managed. The fact is, some bright children wear winding up their teachers as a badge of honour. They will still do well in their exams, of course - it's the less bright children who can't access the grammar schools in the first place who find it harder to deal with...