Best place to live in Kent for Grammar school

[vik2017]

Hi,
This is my first question on this board....
and I wanted to know which is the best place to live in Kent and falls into Grammar catchment area and also if my son dont get to the Grammar at least will go to a very good comprehensive school.
Any suggestion will be appreciated even suggest to move to another place considering we both work in London.

Many thanks in advance...
Viki

vik2017 you still haven't said why you think your DC is best suited to a Grammar education.

@MumTryingHerBest: You may be looking this from other side, I have repeatedly said, I am trying to provide a ground for DS education so I dont know where did you get this idea that I will or have chosen the career path for DS...

where did you get this idea that I will or have chosen the career path for DS...

Because you mentioned Oxbridge. Ocbridge is only relevant if your DC wants to go there.

Yes @Mountford heaven forbid our children should mix with poor people !

@MumTryingHerBest: Because you mentioned Oxbridge. Ocbridge is only relevant if your DC wants to go there.
I just raised a point it does not mean DS will go to oxbridge or even to uni. Some people have talked about different grammars that does not mean they all have been there or their DC study there, it is from a reference point of view...

vik2017 What subjects is your DC most interested in: maths, Science, English, Histry, Geograph, Art, Lanuages, Drama, Music, Sport?

@MumTryingHerBest: if I say any you would say how do I know and if I say dont know you would say then whats the point of me being discusing all that so both scenarios are not relevant.
My whole point is to get people idea about the area and grammar culture county like Kent and unless DS has any platform how anyone on earth will know what is best for him. If determinig the best for DC is so easy then I dont think I would have even started this topic...

www.kent.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/58680/Grammar-Schools-and-Social-Mobility-June-2016.pdf

This report might be worth reading and is about grammar school cohorts in Kent.

Removing financial barriers to grammar schools
Recommendation 11: Urge all grammar schools to use multiple uniform providers to minimise
costs and subsidise/cover the costs of schools trips and other expenses for pupils from low income
families to ensure these are not prohibitive factors to children applying for or securing a grammar
school place.
Due to the severe constraints on local government finances, the decision was taken to remove free
transport for pupils attending their nearest appropriate secondary school if located more than three
miles away. This Committee would like to see this entitlement reinstated; however, recognising the
continuing, and ever more severe, constraints on the Council’s finances, we make the following
interim recommendations;
Recommendation 12: KCC to extend the existing entitlement for children on Free School Meals to
free school transport to their nearest appropriate school to all children in receipt of Pupil Premium;
Recommendation 13: KCC should raise the low income threshold to £21k to enable pupils from
low income families but not entitled to Free School Meals to access free transport to their nearest
appropriate secondary school7
.

7 The Committee has been advised the estimated cost for recommendation 13 is approx. £500k.

Introduction
At the end of 2015 the Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission published a report examining
the position of social mobility within the UK. The Commission found that Britain has lower social
mobility levels than most comparable countries and income inequality has increased significantly
since 19799
. The Commission also found that those who claim free school meals are only half as
likely to get five good GCSEs as their better off peers with fewer than one in six getting two or more
A levels.
Children supported by the Pupil Premium are significantly less likely to attend university10. The
Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission found that there is a social divide between young
people who go onto university and those who do not with non-graduates, who tend to come from
low income backgrounds ending up in low-progression careers11. The Department of Business,
Innovation and Skills reports a 17% gap between those who claim FSMs and those who do not
who go on to Higher Education nationally. The report suggests that independent schools and state
selective schools have a much higher percentage of children accessing the most selective higher
education institutions than non-selective state schools12.
Unsurprisingly this translates to a differential in income levels in later life, with more than two-thirds
of the job vacancies in elite legal and city firms being filled by university graduates who have been
educated in private or grammar schools13. This is supported by recent Sutton Trust research which
found that ‘elite’ professions including top officers within the military, top doctors, senior civil
servants, journalism, the music industry, law, film and business were professions which (at the
higher pay grades) were dominated by those who had either been educated privately or within
grammar schools14.
If this is the case, what can be done? According to an article entitled 'Why we need open access'
by James Turner15, we need to work with the grain of the education system to improve the chances
of those from low income homes to provide better educational opportunities:

9
Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission (Dec 2015), State of the Nation 2015: Social Mobility and Child Pove

I think this is very interesting .

‘Parents can have an ‘under-the-oak-tree’ impression of grammar schools, likening them to
expensive independent schools’49.
This finding is supported by national research that parents from disadvantaged backgrounds often
associate grammar schools with ‘tradition, middle class values and elitism’ which can create a
‘social rather than educational barrier’50.
Further evidence also suggested that parents’ own poor experiences of education can create a
disinclination to engage51.
‘Some pupils may have parents who don’t see grammars as an option or don’t remember
grammars fondly. They might not see grammar schools as part of their world

vik2017 if I say any you would say how do I know

No, I would say, ask people which Kent Grammar Schools & indies/privates are strongest in those areas.

So, what subjects is your DC most interested in: maths, Science, English, Histry, Geograph, Art, Lanuages, Drama, Music, Sport?

Sorry @mountford100 none of what you have posted regarding social mobility excuses the fact you made a correlation between wealth and behaviour /ability to get into grammar school

Appendix B: Local Authorities with Selective Education
Table adapted from the Institute of Financial Studies (2013)
196Local authority
(LA)
Number of
schools
Proportion of pupils in
LA at grammar schools
(%)
Proportion of pupils at grammar
schools living outside LA (%)
All 161 4 24.9
Selective local
authorities
106 25.2 19.3
Trafford 7 38.5 28.5
Buckinghamshire 13 36.0 19.2
Slough 4 32.4 60.0
Kent 32 28.4 6.8
Southend-on-Sea 4 28.3 53.4
Torbay 3 27.6 40.6
Medway 6 27.5 12.0
Wirral 6 25.8 8.9
Lincolnshire 15 22.7 17.7
Bournemouth 2 18.8 37.8
Reading 2 18.8 75.0
Plymouth 3 14.8 34.5
Gloucestershire 7 12.6 4.5
Calderdale 2 11.7 30.0

I said quite the opposite actually ! I was making a remark about the totally stage managed cohort at Beaconsfield High. The other comment earlier in the thread about soft skills was pointing out the unfairness about perceptions.

My posting last week suggested a more traditional education across all schools, to which i was rebuked by posters.

I have made no derisory or derogatory comments about wealth, class or anything suggestive off those.

Vik. In an LA where there are no Grammars, all the clever kids are in the top sets in comps.

Doing just as well as they would do in a Grammar.

The overall results for the whole of Kent, a grammar system, are no better than the overall results for a non-Grammar area.

“@mountford that is one of the craziest anologies I've ever read on mumsnet..drama much?”

To be fair I think s/he’s onto something.

Death Penalty: overall crime rates the same in death penalty states as comparable non death penalty states.
Grammar schools: overall pass rates the same as in no grammar areas.l

That’s interesting data Mountford. I didn’t realise Bucks has only 13 grammars vs Kent’s 32. Too many years reading the Eleven plus exams forum made me think Bucks had loads, as it’s so Bucks centric on there.

The cynic in me thinks that, as with increasing the accessibility of a university education, which has not actually resulted in more high quality graduate jobs, the result of increasing the proportion of pupil premium children in grammar schools may be to make grammar schools less of a "golden ticket" to a successful future career.

Taffeta as it’s so Bucks centric on there.

Which is odd as Its set up by Region so it is only Bucks centric if you are on the Bucks Region Thread.

I mean the generic folders - of which there are many eg general, appeals etc.

I mean the generic folders - of which there are many eg general, appeals etc.

Of course the appeals thread is Bucks centric. Bucks is a fully selective County and, despite what people on MN claim, parents are not exactly thrilled when they are faced with sending their DCs to a sec. mod. What's more Bucks has proven success rates at appeal, whereas in other areas it is significantly harder to win one so fewer people go down that road.

Which other generic threads are Bucks centric?

I think the success rate for appeals is high in Bucks because the only qualification required is to score '121' . It is therefore arguable that if a child had a serious cold or an illness before the test , it could contribute to the loss of a few marks.

It is more difficult to win an appeal if a selective system chooses the top % of pupils rather than requiring a score.

The Op seems to be confirming what I said earlier - one of the reasons why people lie Grammars is because they are socially divisive. The OP would consider Kent because if her kids get into a Grammar, she thinks they will avoid the disruptive elements which are found in schools which have a wider social and ability mix.
To be honest, this will be a motivation for most people choosing Grammars, even if they don't say it.
Yes, Grammars can have discipline issues too, but as a general rule, it is true that those issues are less. People often say that if you are in a good Comp which sets for many subjects, as long as your Kids are in the top sets,N then it's okay - because they miss the disruptive element which is mostly (not totally note) found in lower sets. People like Grammars because they feel like the whole school is effectively the top sets. Comps can do really well for their top kids (as well as others) but people fear that they may not set for many subjects or may change their setting policy and their children will have to have more lessons with disruptive children. A Grammar seems a surer way to avoid this.

So, regardless of the evidence that bright children can do equally well in Comps (and remember, this is in good Comps and not all are good Comps) people still won't be convinced that Comps are as good or as equal, because they are not just looking at results - they are looking at the whole learning experience and the mix of pupils - and Comps will certainly have a broader mix of pupils. Many parents who want Grammars actively want to avoid the full social mix - and that is whybGrammars are socially divisive.

From a society wide point of view I think wholly selective counties like Kent are a 'bad thing' because they are socially divisive. Hover, from an individual point if view such as the Op, I can totally see why a parent might want it for their own kid. We are in an individualistic and selfish society. We choose what is best for our own children and consider them,mrather than what is good for society. Even if we think we have political or social or moral principles, few are prepared to follow those through to their ultimate conclusion when their own children ar involved. People often speak of 'not sacrificing their children to their principles' - and even the strongly anti grammar brigade will often be prepared to ship their kids a few miles to get the better rather than the worse Comp - interested parents simply don't send their children into the local rough school if they can find an alternative, despite their principles thatebferyone should have equal opportunities (knowing the deprived can't or won't shop their children elsewhere) - or very very few will.

In theory Bucks for instance could have 100% of students in grammar schools if every pupil scored '121' or more !

However, looking at the figures Bucks sends '36%' (living within its boundaries) of its pupils to grammar school at not the imagined 25%.

Therefore a reasonably bright child should be able to gain access to a grammar school in Buckinghamshire.