Not rich kid in private secondary

[user789653241]

My ds is in yr5. I think this is the time you need to think about secondary school.
State option is very limited, and there is great private secondary not too far away.
We can't afford the fee, but maybe can seek out bursary. Maybe not.
But the thing is, even we can get bursary, we may not be able to afford to pay all those expensive trips abroad etc. that comes with going to private school.
I really don't want to put my ds through entrance exam, 11+ etc., if we decide to send him to local state anyway.

I would like to ask the parents who sends kids to private secondary with bursary how does it work out? Do your kids feel ok about parents aren't rich compared to others? Do they have good experience?

I think its very true DaisyRaine - although I dont tend to think they bully in the same way its more subtle exclusion your thoughts are not valid - although its only the minority that are like that ...

To be fair kids bully wherever they are, if they single you out for any reason (or none) they will find a target.

My dd got a bursary. Her school stated that about 10% children got some form of bursary ranging from 10% to 100%. No-one knew who got them. Uniform was expensive but my sister paid for this (she has no children of her own), but uniform can be expensive at state schools too. The trips are optional but the school does offer help for trips (Means tested) even for non bursary holders. We never asked for anything for trips as my dad kindly paid for MFL trips that dd wanted to go on. We would have found the money if my dad had not offered. Again state schools offer these trips at similar costs.

There was no bullying that I was aware of but maybe she was lucky. My niece was bullied at a state school and it got so bad that after lack of action by the school she was removed.

It will vary. If your ds is sporty you may need to consider overseas rugby tours at 2.5k every few years for example. If not you can rule those out. Dc have cost us relatively little in residential trips as non sporty pupils until later years when interest or exam related trips appeared. Dc school publishes a list of proposed trips and anticipated cost on a 2 year basis, although not all run in the end. You may find any trips associated with a particular recognised talent are subsidised for those on bursaries or related scholarships (choir tour for music scholars for example) but this will vary and you need to ask upfront if this might be the case.

The private schools I've worked in have all been a total mix of wealth.

No one really cares. The ski trip is often hard to fill and not going isn't a big deal at all. They have all had second hand uniform shops too

Hi, my son is in a state Secondary school, I still can't afford to pay the school trip to go to abroad. Each trip is around 800pounds.

Day school might be different to boarding but my DS, at a top Public school, only went on trips that were part of course work, none of which were abroad apart from Duke of Edinburgh. I hasten to add this was completely his choice, his reasoning was that as the main foreign trips were always during the holidays and he cherished his time at home too much, he chose not to go. Personality of the child can certainly play a part.

The bursaries vary from school to school because the income they have to spend on bursaries varies. Old well established boys and co-ed schools have legacies going back several hundred years from which they derive funds. Also the very rich who give to their old schools tend to be men. Girls schools , generally, are less well off. At DDs school, bursaries were taken from fe income and funds provided by old girls and a few Uber rich parents. They did have a few generous bursaries though.

In some schools the children work out who has a bursary. They become subtlety aware. I don't believe anyone was bullied but the Uber rich and rich will keep to their own tribe.

Some of the bursary holders at Harrow are very much lauded and one was Head Boy. I would aim for this Irvine. They really rate their bursary boys!

We aren't rich in comparison with many of the parents at DS2's school (Winchester College) but it never was an issue.
DS went on a trip abroad every year, I very much got the impression that staff worked hard to keep costs to a minimum I think the max we paid was £600 for one week and that included flights, hotels, entrance to loads of museums and all the food including a meal every night in a restaurant, I couldn't have done it for less.
The school didn't really organise expensive trips as I suspect parents organised these.
My DS said he rarely experienced any problems with super rich boys (there were a lot there) he has friends form all walks of life, on the very rare occasion he did, the boy in question was usually universally despised by all.

Thank you all for advice.
We need to have a think...

My state school had ski trips and trips to Hawaii and Dubai etc. I never went on any of them.
We're considering sending daughter to private secondary (due to lack of decent secondaries) and she will almost certainly not go on such trips either.
The school we are looking at has kids who turn up driving their mum's merc and some even have drivers but equally you have families who clearly make sacrifices to send their kids there.
Personally we are going on the basis of can we afford the neccessities eg it's a sporty school so can we afford the sports kits as well as the fees and uniform etc? Are we able, as much as we can, to be certain we can afford the full period?

I should say, that I don't live in a hugely affluent area. There are two private achools by us and the boys in the boys school seem to wear pretty much the same stuff as a lot of the boys who go to the state schools.

My DD has just joined Sixth form on a scholarship and bursary which includes all named uniform and school trips which are part of the curriculum. It's still early days for us, but DD has had to accept the other pupils have more money than her, ie they think nothing of spending £100 on a jumper, luckily she wouldn't want to spend that much anyway. They often walk up the road for snacks, we'd be going to Tescos/Sainsburys but it has to be M&S etc.

We felt uncomfortable about asking for a bursary, but have realised there are a fair number of pupils at the school on them, so it is worth asking.

"But the thing is, even we can get bursary, we may not be able to afford to pay all those expensive trips abroad etc. that comes with going to private school."

Where did you get this idea of all those expensive trips abroad that comes with going to private school from, OP?

Believe me, this notion that you have in your head is nothing but just a myth. I repeat, a myth!

Private school or not, no one can force you to spend money that you can't afford or just don't want to spend. I can categorically reassure you that even in the poshest school in the land world, many people just give trips abroad a miss. Of course, these posh schools do many things, a lot of them quite unnecessarily, imho, e.g scuba diving in the Red Sea, rugby in Argentina or New Zealand, cricket in South Africa, concerts in China, etc; but if your child does not have any interests in deep-sea diving or rugby or cricket or playing any musical instruments, then there's no reason to even think of these outings that's usually organised by the particular societies/clubs of the school that promote these trips. Even if your child has every interest in all these activities, it is still practically and humanly impossible to go on all these trips because they usually all happen at the same time, i.e. during the school holidays. But again, it's up to the individual whether or not to participate in any of these outings.

At the very most, your child may be encouraged to take a short trip to (say) Auschwitz in Poland or somewhere nearby across The Channel to The Somme in France by the school's Historical Society as part of their history lessons; i.e. assuming your child takes History as one of his subjects, but again he might just opt out for one reason or other.

I wouldnt actually see the trips as a big problem and maybe because he is a boy there may not be the same issues that there can be with wealth...I do agree with the mum that said that the children tend to go into their own tribes - I can clearly see this with my dd's peer group.

I think my DD has struggled with knowing that we had a really nice lifestyle before she went to the school (funny enough I could afford for her to have some expensive clothes makeup), however now the treats are much fewer because the money does go towards school fees....one of her considerations now is whether she goes back into the state system for 6th form and we go back to not having to think about what we spend money on ...or we go another two years with watching our pennies...

Thank you. It really gives me a lot to think about. Very helpful.

DS1 went an "outstanding high achieving secondary comp" a friend at his school came home one evening proudly clutching a letter from school; "your child is lucky enough to have been picked to represent the school on our trip to China next year etc etc" a mere £2000+. His parents weren't wealthy, just on average salaries, his mum told me she'd never spent that sort of money on a family holiday for four let alone one child. She was very annoyed with the school, and the wording of the letter. She felt it was very difficult to say no, as her DS had been "picked" and that the school should have contacted her to discuss it before sending out letters.
All the time my DS was at Winchester I never saw details of any trip costing that kind of money.
As peternas says most trips are at the end of the day optional even if its a subject related trip and costs are usually kept to a minimum. Teachers who organise these things aren't on mega salaries they understand that some parents may struggle to pay for them.

He probably wont be the only child whose family doesn't have masses of disposable income. Even some of the kids who don't have bursaries may be in the situation where their parents are just about rich enough to pay school fees, but not rich enough to have much left over afterwards. I would assume this is more likely to be the case in areas where the local state school is not great.

Eg, I went to a private school where many of my friend's parents would have been fairly comfortable, except that they spent nearly all their money after bills and food etc on school fees - so not much to spare on fancy trips.
I was on a large bursary and scolarship, and my mum still couldn't really afford it which made me feel quite precarious whilst there; I was very aware when fees were late and worried about letting people down and having my bursary removed (I am not sure if this was a realistic concern). So that might be something to bear in mind - think about how affordable it will be long term, and what you will do if your situation changes. If you can only just about barely afford it now, you wont have much wriggle room in the future and it could be very stressful worrying about having to move schools.
Missing out on trips etc I could live with, especially as I wasn't the only one most of the time.

I wont lie, in many ways my school was great but there were definitely some aspects of it which were less pleasant and occasionally the pressure to make financial contributions made for some very awkward situations. I was often unhappy (but that was mainly due to the kind of teenager I was ). However, I appreciate that on balance it was very good for me and I would probably not have done as well at school if I had gone to the local comprehensive.

I know all schools are different but it really hasn't been a problem at dd's. She has a small scholarship topped up with a bursary. Trips generally aren't any more expensive than the local state schools. And the majority don't go on the expensive ski trip type, so she doesn't stand out that way.

Uniform wasn't really much more expensive than local comp (which is ridiculously costly) and is far better quality, so I can honestly say it's better value for money.

However her school does offer additional funding if needed for uniform, or for trips such as mfl exchange in ks4, providing they agree you can't afford it and it would help educationally.

Socially it's not been a problem at all. Partly because dd knows dc in real poverty, partly because she's just not that way inclined, and partly because of the other pupils attitude.

She has friends who are from old school landed gentry backgrounds, the very wealthy, normal families making huge sacrifices and another big bursary dc from a much poorer home. Nobody seems to care about where we live or what I earn. The odd snob would be quickly ignored by the majority alike.

I do think it very much depends on the school though. Don't get me wrong, dd's is very impressive and well known, but it's also very academic. Parents just after boasting rights with dc who are just marking time till they come of age aren't the type of pupil it attracts.

The pupils know it's not the easiest school to get into, and achievement is very much the thing to aspire to, rather than wealth. The competition for a bursary & scholarship is much higher than for a full fee place, so having one is viewed as proof of intelligence, rather than proof you are poor. One of the reasons they prefer bursary kids don't advertise it early on is because other dc tend to have overly high expectations of genius ability across the board. Ditto scholarships.

Do look closely at the school though. Another a bit further away we viewed purely to get some perspective on dds was very different. I got the impression that their bursary pupils were nothing but future exam results and should be grateful to be there, it was very cold iyswim. Another perfectly nice school just wasn't as big, established or wealthy, so very few bursary dc, and lots of expensive extras. At either of those two her experience would have been very different.

There are plenty of schools where sports trips to far flung places are £2-3,000. History trips to the USA are £1350 - that's not unusual. I think bursary children would get help for the latter but if they are in a first sports team, not doing a sports trip is problematic. I think a lot depends on the school and what the norm is. Our uniform plus sports kit was £800 way back! Not the same as a comp at all!

BubblesBuddy

My 4 year olds will cost about £600 and that’s if she doesn’t grow (I call her a bean stalk because she grows magically in the night 😂)

That’s before shoes, trainers, dance kit, winters coat, rain coat etc.

At the state school she’s moving from it cost £60 for everything 😂 so that’s a big jump

Thank you, it's very helpful to hear your experiences.
I will try to make appointment with his teacher to ask her opinion.
Ds is very good with maths, not so great with writing. It could be the big problem, before even thinking about applying for selective private in the first place!

It really does depend on the school . The private school my DS attends is smaller, a greater mix of parents in terms of jobs and wealth . There ,it certainly wouldn't be a problem .
The private school my DD attends is all round more expensive ,trips and general daily life there seems to cost more.. The type of parents / backgrounds are very different with everyone seeming rather more wealthy than my DS school. I think a bursary child may struggle more there.

Uniform is likely to be more expensive than your average state school, often more PE kit is required. Most schools publish a uniform list look up the prices. Having said this most independent schools have a 2 nd hand shop, nearly all my DS’s clothes at prep were purchased through it. IME you do have to be organised, get in early if your going to purchase much stuff from it. Over the years I sent lots of stuff to the schools excellent second hand shop, some had been barely worn the rest was in excellent condition there was no shame in buying from it. If your DC is in a bursary you may get help but don’t assume you will; ask.

At my ds’s School ( which is populated by the kids of super rich families) bursary kids are not known to anyone other than the head and the burser and governors so there is definitely no difference in the way bursary kids are treated. Trips are either compulsory and included in the fees or extra and very much a minority thing ie the annual ski trip, the very rich kids don’t go on these anyway. The best thing to do would be to go and look and find out what’s what. Many schools will only offer small bursaries if at all unless you are in receipt of a scholarship. It may also be worth looking at some of the state schools that offer private boarding as these can be like private but you only pay to board.