Defence secretary announces more cadet units in schools to instil discipline and loyalty

[noblegiraffe]

The Troops to Teachers programme to instil discipline in today's youth was a total failure (no one wanted to do it), so there's a new plan to bring the military to the disaffected and disobedient. 500 extra cadet units will be opened in schools across England and Wales by 2020, focusing on areas of particular deprivation or high ethnic minority representation(!)

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/defence-secretary-announces-expansion-cadet-units-schools

Can I just add re the 'signing up' business... the army came into our school to do some team building. It was an active recruiting exercise!

Lots of people are comparing this to other groups that exist such as boxing gyms, sports clubs and so on. The point is that funding has been CUT to most of these organisations!

There are plenty of people who will bemoan the bad influence football and boxing have, anyway.

It genuinely is National Service by the back door. Let's not kid ourselves. Lots of you probably like that idea anyway.

all schools visit Parliament its part if the anti terrorist curriculum but it's only a few kids from each school each year.

they really don't 2014 !

It’s all very well for the chattering classes to sneer at this and vaunt their pacifist credentials. Their children are probably learning violin and playing tennis in their spare time

Just catching up on page one.

I am definitely not from the chattering classes. I think my life brings me regularly into contact with the type of young men this initiative might be aimed at. it might be a lifeline for some. Am not disputing that. It's the notion that this is what is missing to 'instil discipline' that sticks in my throat and seems paternalistic and patronising.

But I accept what some posters have said about travel and horizons and so on in the actual military.

I was an army cadet. Best thing I ever did in my youth. (Was also in Brownies, joined guides but then left). Taught me so much about myself and about team work. I learned self-esteem, self-discipline, self-respect. It kept me fit, healthy and away from other temptations. I learned about others, I gave back to my community through volunteering. There wasn't anything else similar on offer in my area. I learned I had a talent for leadership. I grew in confidence. I learned to question others. It was affordable. All kit was issued.
I was no longer bullied at school after starting.
It was an escape from home regularly.
There was no active recruiting to the forces, in fact they were more likely to encourage cadets into further education and employment- then to become adult instructors at cadets!!!

Let's face it, the actual business of the army is not skiing and hang-gliding and the military is not getting involved with disaffected and poor kids in schools for entirely altruistic reasons. People who say it's not a recruitment exercise are possibly being naive.

Is there a problem if it is a recruitment exercise, or is the problem simply that it's being targeted at the poor and ethnic minorities?

After all, the government has plenty of initiatives in school to e.g. improve maths education levels and get more people into STEM careers because the country needs them. So why not the army?

Can I just add re the 'signing up' business... the army came into our school to do some team building. It was an active recruiting exercise!

That isn't cadets though is it.

Lots of people are comparing this to other groups that exist such as boxing gyms, sports clubs and so on. The point is that funding has been CUT to most of these organisations!

You are right, funding has been cut to many organisations, including cadets. They still take your children for free though.

It genuinely is National Service by the back door.

Well no, it isn't. National service was compulsory and national service personnel were actual members of the armed forces who could be deployed in conflicts overseas. No cadet is a member of the armed forces and no cadet can fight in any conflict.

I do agree with archery there should be a non military alternative. But I don't agree that it's cannon fodder, a recruiting ground for the military etc. It's simply not true. I welcome the expansion, in the absence of a viable alternative.

The problem is that without the military bit you have nothing to hold it all together. You need some kind of theme. Just setting up an organisation and doing these activities would take a long time to take off with no identity. Such a thing would be a huge expense and there is no way it could be offered for free.

I haven't read the thread but I was in the RAF for 13 years. I'm of the belief that the military attracts a certain kind of person and for those that join you do have definite values instilled in you.

You don't think there'll be an element of compulsory on these disadvantaged areas? If not, what will be the point?

@Piggy - its not aimed at young men. Girls apply to join in droves.

What grounds to you have for assuming an element of compulsion? There have been cadet units in most private and grammar schools for years - can’t think of any where it is compulsory.

My only criticism of this scheme is the intention to deliver it through the school structure. Cadet units in my area are often the last resort of those youngsters who have dropped out of the school system to be “home schooled” by their physically ill/mentally ill parents who can no longer cope with getting them up in the morning. This usually involves sleeping till one, a couple of hours on the x box and then hanging out with similar youngsters. These units can be a life saver for that demographic.

So I hope this will not lead to a reduction in the number of units outside a school setting.

Piggy it isn't compulsory. It never has been it's not school.

I am aware of both of the above points. Read the OP : this is about instilling discipline in disaffected youth. Government targets are based around working class white males , and the Prevent strategy.

There will be no measurable outcome from CCF in deprived areas unless there is an element of compulsoriness at least at first.

Of course CCF is not compulsory in top schools. These are thriving establishments where students understand their future paths include university application enhancement. Also, in these schools, there often is an element of 'compulsory' . In my DH;s school, they mostly do CCF on Weds afternoons. Those who don't, do some other form of volunteering. Enrichment and community service is embedded in their curriculum. Not saying that is wrong. But it would be an added 'luxury' in most schools.

There have been cadet units in most private and grammar schools for years - can’t think of any where it is compulsory.

The difference here is between a group of relatively privileged children, ones who have plenty of options in their lives, and a group of disadvantaged children that don't have many options. It's not a question of it being compulsory - but the enticements on offer would work on the two groups in a different way.

And I am genuinely glad for those kids, of whatever class, who get a lot out of cadets! What kid would not want to learn how to fly, never mind all the social and sports stuff! But I am just not happy that those opportunities have to be wrapped up in a military bow.

good points, though, canal : there was a story about just such a home 'schooled' boy on the BBC two days ago.

Yes that was a tragic story.

I don't even understand how there could be 'an element of compulsoriness'. Surely either it's compulsory or it's not, and I don't see how schools would even be allowed to make it compulsory.

Dd (12) told me they had a talk at school from the cadets last week. They must have done a damn good job of selling it, because even dd said it sounded quite good, and she is very much not the type to want to do that sort of thing (she's not sporty, not very adventurous, not into teamworky type things at all and can barely be persuaded to brush her hair, never mind wear a smart uniform voluntarily).

There are 100s of those kids in the North - particularly the deprived industrial towns.

I don't think it's about 'allowed'. I think it's probably about schools having targets...

Of course CCF is not compulsory in top schools.

Actually it is compulsory in quite a few private schools (often co-ed day/boarding schools) - Ds1 has friends from prep school (girls and boys) who had to join for 1 year in Year 10.

I actually would have much less of an issue id it was being badged in the way PPs have done here : so about aspiration and endeavour and ambition and opportunity. And I am sure it does those things for some young people.

I think the red rag to me is always when a Tory minister please backbenchers and elements of the voting public by saying it is all about discipline and loyalty. That's where I sense the 'teach the oiks how to behave' discourse.

He should sign some of you lot up to write his speeches!

Incidentally, some aspects of CCF can be also be used for DoE, I believe. I seem to remember my son doing an expedition that could be used to tick a DoE box.

Incidentally, some aspects of CCF can be also be used for DoE, I believe. I seem to remember my son doing an expedition that could be used to tick a DoE box.

I think I remember reading somewhere that despite the millions of pounds pumped into troops to teachers, there were only something like 26 who ended up doing it.
Total waste of money.