Defence secretary announces more cadet units in schools to instil discipline and loyalty

[noblegiraffe]

The Troops to Teachers programme to instil discipline in today's youth was a total failure (no one wanted to do it), so there's a new plan to bring the military to the disaffected and disobedient. 500 extra cadet units will be opened in schools across England and Wales by 2020, focusing on areas of particular deprivation or high ethnic minority representation(!)

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/defence-secretary-announces-expansion-cadet-units-schools

How much direct experience have you got of the military Annie?

"The United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child has quite a few harsh things to say about the UK recruiting under-18s into the armed forces, just so you know."

Under 18s however go into Army College and training, they do not deploy into an active operation until 18. They can also leave without penalty. The UNHCR criticises all joining under age of majority, because it's really not like that in so many countries. They consider UK stance gives succour to those with abusive systems, which is a fair point.

Oh - and just to be clear, if my own DS wished to join the forces, once he is an adult, I would support him entirely. But I would want him to have made a free choice about it, as an adult.

Quite a lot, TheFairyCaravan.

"I want this public money to be used to provide these opportunities to disadvantaged children without a military framework."

So you agree they are worthwhile opportunities? if you don't want CCF, which department should create a whole new organisation?

You could use this CCF announcement to springboard any campaigning you are already doing to create/support what you want.

mpsw it's never been my argument that joining the cadets wouldn't be a fun, worthwhile, satisfying thing for kids to do. I just don't think that all those fun, satisfying, worthwhile things should be wrapped in a military framework when they are offered to disadvantaged children.

And yes, there are already organisations that oppose this, and are trying to create alternatives. And yes, I support them.

Yes, I think getting a focus onto what you want to see expand in schools is a much more positive step. Because I think it's inevitable that there will need to be plurality of provision for quite some time to come.

You are all being far too cynical.

The MOD wanted to pull out of funding the CCF in schools only a couple of years ago (we received the letter) but reversed their decision after lobbying by the schools.

Private schools tend to have Officer Training Corps rather than army cadets
The Officer Training Corps title only appears to relate to University Officer Training Corps (since 1948?).

DS1's private school has CCF (Combined Cadet Force) which appears to be exactly what is offered to state schools, although small divisions may only be able to offer the Army Section. Many divisions offer Army + RAF Sections (especially if several schools join together) and rather less offer Navy Sections as well. DS1 wasn't interested at all but some of his friends enjoy it. Camp weeks (kayaking, climbing, mountain biking, overnight exercises) and Field Days look great fun and Flying/Gliding days look fantastic - marching and boot polishing much less so.

There is still an active idea that if you a bit of a bad sort, the military is the place for you.
Quite a few state grammar schools offer CCF - including my old super selective girls' grammar school.

Lots of schools already have D of E.
DS1's school offer that as well. I would say that you have to be quite self motivated (or have very involved parents) to undertake D of E - often having to seek out your own activities and charity work for example and gathering signed paperwork as evidence. D of E can be quite expensive to undertake - CCF seems cheap by comparison - £45 for a week's camp - all food and activities included, £10 for a gliding day - may well be fully funded for disadvantaged kids.

Some CCF cadets will decide to join the Forces - it is a legitimate career.

www.bromptonacademy.org.uk/220/ccf-events
www.thomasdeaconacademy.co.uk/page/?pid=230
www.brookewestontrust.org/news/?pid=9&nid=3&storyid=367
www.priorylsst.co.uk/blog/?pid=156&nid=7&storyid=301

Archery fair play to you setting up an alternative are you directly targeting disadvantaged areas? How are you finding it?

The OTC is a variant of the TA and is open only to over 18s (as is the TA itself). TA is different from the regulars in this, because they do not offer the education that full time juniors receive at the College.

CCF is the youth organisation, which starts at 13ish and ends at end of Sixth Form.

I'm not setting up anything, 2014, because amazingly enough, as a single parent on a very low income I don't have the same resources as the Defence Secretary. I do support and promote those organisations which are trying to offer an alternative.

Why would the defence secretary set up an alternative it's not his job!

Can't stand people who snipe and criticise but do Nothing positive just slag off other peoples efforts. A huge number of volunteers give their time to cadets, mostly non military people normal parents and youth leaders. They make a difference to thousands of lives. They provide opportunities to those who would not otherwise have them.
It's free.
It's optional. Nobody is cajoled to attend.
But still some people shoot it down.
Ffs

You are just being obtuse, now, 2014. I cannot set up an alternative to the cadets, because I don't have access to the same resources as the cadets. These resources and infrastructure come, largely, from public funds, and should be made available to disadvantaged children without the military framework.

If you don't understand that, and if you don't understand why I am not in a position to personally provide an alternative to the cadets, because I don't have the same access to funding and infrastructure as the Defence Secretary, then I can't help you.

Your help is not needed!
You do nothing but snipe at others efforts.you're not campaigning or involved in any way in setting up an alternative you want 'other people' to do it.
We get the picture!

Cant stand people that have strong views on what everyone else should do but sit on their areas doing nothing themselves. #lazy

DS goes to sea cadets and absolutely loves it, he gets to do a full day's sailing every Saturday and an evening in the week on the water in the summer (rowing or kayaking usually), the older members have been involved with the tall ships and have taken part in sailing races around the world and they're all off to the med sailing for 10 days next Summer. It really does give them brilliant opportunities and skills.

I couldn't reccomend it highly enough.

It's even got him to enjoy boot polishing and folding up his clothes!

A few of my friends have been rather sniffy about the militaristic aspect, but as PPs have said, very few cadets will go on to sign up, and even if they do, so what?

Any organisation that affords children from all backgrounds such fantastic experiences gets a big thumbs-up from me.

2014 I have specifically said I do support and promote efforts to offer alternatives - you just didn't listen. I have volunteered for years for an organisation which helps to offer young people role models and broadens their life choices, for example. It's not the only volunteering I do, either, despite the fact that I'm a single parent and I also work.

But no, because I won't sign up to your worship of only offering disadvantaged kids help if it's wrapped up in a military framework, I'm clearly a waster. Right.

Harsh, 2014.

I don't agree with Archery, as I think the expansion is something to be welcomed. But she says she does support organisations which are also seeking expansion (or set up?) in schools. And I think it's wholly positive to have more.

So that all schools that want to offer something, can find that something (remember, schools have to invite in CCF and the first 100 state schools in the expansion programme were not targeted and they sought it for themselves - I see this initiative as trying to take it beyond the independents/grammars/leafy comps)

ILikeYourHairyHands that sounds amazing, and I'm not surprising your DS loves it. A friend of mine in another European country also has a son in a fully-funded children's sailing scheme, where he gets to sail regularly, and travel all over his own country, and the rest of Europe, with his sailing team. But it's entirely civilian (although still organised by the state), not linked to their navy at all.

I do agree with archery there should be a non military alternative. But I don't agree that it's cannon fodder, a recruiting ground for the military etc. It's simply not true. I welcome the expansion, in the absence of a viable alternative.

I think the £50 million would be better spent on education and teachers. No wonder some youngsters are disaffected with them having to endure such a crap education, at shit schools with poor results.....they can see what their lives will be like with dismal exam results and no opportunities.

This could be a really excellent sex equality move. When I was in Air Cadets the female NCOs very effectively hammered any sexism out of the cadets, mostly by example but sometimes literally (in CQC training). If the new cadet groups make a serious efforts to attract female recruits it could pay huge dividends in both attitudes and performance.

They’ve always targeted the poor as cannon fodder the bastards..

Did you mean to use snipe and shoot . Made me laugh nayway.

I no my opinions won't resonate with everyone and I am fine with that _ I did say I was being cynical and that I am a pacifist so I will have an inbuilt antipathy to bringing militarism in nay form into schools.

I think the idea about sexual equality is an interesting one. In practice, I think this will be aimed at young, white, working class males as this is all the education chatter at the moment.

Point taken about D of E.