Teaching to stop being a graduate-only profession - 18 year old teachers.

[noblegiraffe]

There were rumblings about this a while ago when the apprenticeship levy was introduced, but it looks like Justine Greening is going to introduce an apprencticeship route into teaching.

schoolsweek.co.uk/greening-teaching-will-cease-to-be-only-for-university-graduates/

I'm very concerned that in secondary schools, specialist subject knowledge won't be a pre-requisite for going into the classroom, it will be seen as something that can be picked up across the years, shortchanging the classes who get the apprentice in the first few years of the training (how long is an apprenticeship?).

In primary school, the education of a class for a full year could fall to someone just out of school themselves.

This isn't just about training on-the-job, we already have that as a route into teaching. This is about deprioritising a certain level of education for teachers and devaluing the profession. It's saying you don't need to be well-educated to teach, because you could be teaching straight out of school. The 'learning how to teach' part of any teacher training programme is so intense, that acquiring degree-level subject knowledge will certainly not be a priority from the start.

The wage for apprentices means this is just another way for schools to get teachers on the cheap and hang the consequences for education.

And knowing how many parents already view young teachers, fresh out of uni and just finished their PGCE, how will they take to having their child being taught by someone who hasn't even been to university?

, and Kelley who got her (not quite good enough to go to university) A level results last month. Would you really be happy if you got Kelley?!*

Jesus

If this goes ahead, is there not a risk of there being a large number of people who have completed their apprentiship but can’t get a teaching job?

Given the shortages and likely low take up rate of such apprentices I doubt that will ever be an issue.

The entry quals will undoubtedly be A levels for primary teaching, and at least a level 5 qual (DipHE, FD) for secondary subject teaching. In fact if it was a Level 7 apprenticeship requiring a degree in the subject that would work very well actually - thinking about it that would be a very sensible route and probably what will be written into the standard.

Maths and English GCSEs are already required for higher and degree Apprenticeships so no one needs worry about that. (Lower level apprentices by the way must also gain M and E before they pass - it's one of the funding requirements.)

She has the right experience and knowledge to be an apprentice teacher, yes.

At 18?

Am glad in reading this that education is devolved in Wales. Although I do not support most of the decisions that the Education Minister in Wales makes!

*Can you imagine the posts on here from parents whose PFB children are about to start school and the two choices are Mrs X who has been teaching for ten years and has a wealth of experience and Kelley who got her (not quite good enough to go to university) A level results last month. Would you really be happy if you got Kelley?!

The big question is-who would be mentoring, supporting and training Kelley and whose teaching their their class whilst it happens*

But Mrs X would be mentoring/supporting and training Kelley/Jayden and Letitia (names arbitrarily chosen to fit JKL initials) - SHE would be class teacher for all 3 classes. Timeshare teaching whilst the others lead tasks she has prepared.

This is all about cost cutting and eliminating teacher's terms and conditions.

bold fail...

titchy - Maths and English GCSEs are already required for higher and degree Apprenticeships

So are you saying that they already need a L9 in Maths and English?

Given the shortages and likely low take up rate of such apprentices I doubt that will ever be an issue.

You appear to have ignored the bit after that:

Could this not lead to Schools retaining a small number of qualified teachers to oversee the apprentices which are simply replaced by new apprentices, thereby limiting the advancement opportunities?

Are you saying that this is unlikely to happen?

SHE would be class teacher for all 3 classes. Timeshare teaching whilst the others lead tasks she has prepared.

How could it possibly go wrong?

As now, the need a pass in M and E (so C or level 4). Nothing different.

Yes unlikely. Take up will be low. The training period will be at least four years, 2 if secondary is a Level 7 which I'd imagine it will be. In practice it'll be no different to any other SCITT type programme.

It's another route. That's all.

The main issues around teaching ate the lack of esteem the profession holds, the poor terms and conditions and the constant meddling of exams and performance measures, and teaching Apprenticeships have nothing to do with that - they won't improve or make those things worse.

titchy - The training period will be at least four years, 2 if secondary is a Level 7 which I'd imagine it will be.

So are they expecting people to work/train for 2-4 years on £3.50 p.h?

titchy - The training period will be at least four years, 2 if secondary is a Level 7 which I'd imagine it will be.

So are they expecting people to work/train for 2-4 years on £3.50 p.h?

Oops, sorry about the double post

How could people survive on that salary? Are apprentices eligible for student/maintenance loans?

No people will not be expected to be paid £3.50 for two to four years because that would be illegal.
Apprentice wages
Higher level apprentices average £18,000

And your TA friends who are already qualified teachers would not be interested because they are already qualified teachers

Am glad in reading this that education is devolved in Wales

Really? The Welsh education system is no great shakes

I wonder who would apply to do such an apprenticeship?!

Easy question:
Would I send my child to school every day, to be educated, cared for and have her needs met by an 18 year old with very little teaching experience?
Easy answer:
NO
( and given the level of anxiety that parents on here express about your children's school/teacher/education, neither woukd many of you)

They'd probably be 19 tbf

With the amount of capacity for supervision available, I imagine something like that scene in one of the Little House books when Laura was sent away at 17 to run a village school on her own.

In a well funded, settled system with plenty of support staff and reasonable workloads this could work.

BUT these aren't ideal circumstances. So the whole idea is crazy IMO.

First year of apprenticeship would be £3.50 per hour no matter what age.

(Apprentices are entitled to the minimum wage for their age if they both:
are aged 19 or over
have completed the first year of their apprenticeship)

I wonder who would apply to do such an apprenticeship?!

Mature people currently working as TAs in schools who want to become qualified teachers but cannot afford to take three years out of work, and the associated loans, to do so.

It's a really really good idea for those sorts of people.

Hay I then went on to say that I do not support the EM on many issues. I teach in Wales and am well aware of the way education is going in Wales.

First year of apprenticeship would be £3.50 per hour no matter what age.

Better than a three year degree which earns you zero and costs you £50k+....

Or a one year post grad which also costs.

£3.50 is the minimum, not the obligatory wage, the minimum. Many 17yo L2, first year apprentices are paid more. It is up to the employer.

What does shock me is the ignorance of apprenticeships and the lack of comprehension when people do make a half arsed effort to find out more.