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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Maths Sets

31 replies

JustHope · 18/09/2017 18:23

Need advice from teachers or parents about maths sets. DS Y9 has been moved down a set for Maths this year. He is finding the work easy and says the ability range in the class means they are doing work he covered in Y7.

He didn't really struggle last year and did ok in assments. I would say he's of average ability and was comfortable in his Y8 set.

I have spoken with his teacher and explaining DS is finding the work so far easy. The teacher said that if DS 'proves himself' that he might be moved back up. I believe this is highly unlikely as it has rarely happened in the past. I am concerned that DS will not make progress this year if he remains in a situation where the work is too easy. He has already lost confidence in his ability as a result of this now believes he is dumb and rubbish at maths.

What can I do in this situation? I am normally one of those parents but I feel this is just too important to just wait and see. Do I just accept teacher knows best?

TIA

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noblegiraffe · 18/09/2017 18:32

Maths is usually taught as a spiral curriculum so it is entirely normal to be taught in Y9 stuff that was first taught in Y7 - obviously the Y9 teaching would push and extend the topic. I'm currently teaching my Y10 top set trigonometry which they first met in Y8, but we're doing much harder questions.

Take the teacher at their word. If he wants to move back up, he needs to prove himself - that means working hard, completing all the work, doing really well in assessments and asking for extension work. Once you have that evidence, you can go back to the teacher and ask about set changes. Without it, you've got a kid moaning to their parents that the work is too easy, which happens quite a lot and isn't always true, e.g. They go 'this is easy', do a cursory amount, and never actually get onto the more challenging work.

RedSkyAtNight · 18/09/2017 18:34

It seems odd that moving down a single set means he is covering work he did in Year 7! Is is possible that they are simply revising old topics and will move onto harder stuff soon? As you've already spoken the teacher I have to admit I'd be tempted just to see if the work stays too easy - and if it does and DS "proves" himself you can go back and ask again.

MsAwesomeDragon · 18/09/2017 18:45

I agree with noble. If he's been moved down that means he wasn't keeping up with the higher set and his assessments will have placed him more in line with his new set.

The way to move back up is to make sure that he's top of this set. He needs to work hard and show that he has really mastered the work he's given in this set. It's not just about what he's been taught, it's about what he can do correctly without having to be reminded.

Original poster

JustHope · 18/09/2017 19:47

Thanks all for your comments. I am definitely not one to believe everything DS says. However in this case, having seen the work he is doing in lessons and the homework which is already set for the next 6 weeks, I think he is right. It is far too easy. I fully understand the need to revisit topics or consolidate previous learning but basic arithmetic and fractions he doesn't have a problem with.

My concern is that by waiting for DS to prove himself he will fall further behind those in the set ahead as they move forward so will always be playing catch up. I am also annoyed as his reports and parents evenings were all positive and he did not drop below his level all year.

Unfortunately I think that because DS is quiet and not one to have his hand up in lessons it maybe appears that he's disinterested or doesn't understand.

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MsAwesomeDragon · 18/09/2017 20:04

I'm every school I've taught at, and the schools my friends have taught at, maths sets are based on test/exam results. So the top 30 in the year are in set 1, the next 30 are set 2, etc. So it's probably not about how he n behaves, it's about the results he got in tests and how they compare to others in the year. If there were a few children in the set below who performed better than him in exams last year then they deserve the place in the set above.

I am currently teaching my y11 class about fractions. They've done this topic every year since year 7. This year we're starting off with a reminder of what they should already know (but quite a few of them have forgotten over the summer because that's what kids/teenagers do), then moving on to more challenging work asap. Don't assume that just because he's done a topic before that he won't learn anything new, he will, they're just covering the basics first as a reminder for those who've forgotten. And just because he can already do one topic don't assume he can already do every topic they're going to do, he won't have mastered every topic thoroughly and the practice will do him good.

So yes, speak to the school, but be prepared for them to tell you that other people did better in the tests last year and unfortunately there just isn't space in the set above. They may also be able to give you ideas for what your son can practice so he does better in tests this year.

lljkk · 18/09/2017 20:19

The setting is exam based at DC school, too, and a little bit based on quality of in-class work. I've heard many stories about kids going up & down, only b/c of exam results. Sometimes the rises & falls are striking (3 or more sets). The brightest lad in the year group is on verge of going down for English because he faffs about so much. (DD is dismayed b/c it's one of her buds, but his own fault)

TeenTimesTwo · 18/09/2017 20:35

My DDs school has overlaps between sets because some children work better at the low end of a higher set, and others (like my DDs) work better being the high end of a lower set.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 18/09/2017 22:08

It's probably worth keeping an eye on it. With the best will in the world kids do sometimes end up in the wrong set.

If you're not sure why he was moved down, there's no harm in asking. They should be able to explain it quite easily.

I think you are probably right to be aware of the fact that a gap could grow between him and the set above if he's in his current set too long.

JustRichmal · 19/09/2017 08:05

I too have a dd who is quiet and can even seem daydreamy in class, so I do understand your concerns. I once had a teacher tell me they judged a child's level on teacher assessment alone, but that was in primary. I would check if they are set purely on test results.
If it is purely on results, would your ds be prepared to do extra work to get to a higher level again? You can easily get him a CGP book for maths KS3 or GCSE (depending if his school is doing 2 or 3 years of GCSE) . The more you practise maths the better you get.

troutsprout · 19/09/2017 09:50

Have some children moved up into his old set?
In dc's class,when this happened, it was because children in a lower set were performing very well and getting higher results than some in the set above and so were moved up. Obviously a few from the higher set then moved down for class size reasons.
Dd revisits topics all the time.. but harder level work is added each time.
Hopefully it will be a chance for your lad to feel top of the group (which is always nice) and if he works hard and gets good results he'll movje up again.

Original poster

JustHope · 20/09/2017 14:39

Apparently some have moved down into his old set and a few moved up to his old set, according to his teacher he has moved down as a result of the 'overflow'

Revisiting topics and building on them I completely understand but I am not seeing any evidence of moving forward we have returned to year 6.

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HangingRock · 20/09/2017 14:48

Presumably the ones that were moved into his old set got a higher mark than he did. The fact that people were moved up into his old set proves that it's possible to move up a set, so hopefully if he proves himself he will move up again.

GrasswillbeGreener · 21/09/2017 10:08

So one question, perhaps, is whether this set is being taught at the right level - if moves down are more because of improvement of kids who needed to go up, then they need to still teach the ones who've moved down, to their potential. If homework has been set 6 weeks ahead then that doesn't imply they will be adapting what is done according to how well the children do the work ...

I don't know as I am not a teacher, but I wonder if expressing your concerns about whether the class as a whole is being challenged sufficiently, may get a better response? Because if a number have moved down with him that could be relevant.

Original poster

JustHope · 22/09/2017 14:42

Yes that's exactly my issue Grass.
If the difference in results is marginal between some of those who moved up and those who moved down, it seems unfair that those who moved down are being taught well below their capabilities so they are allowed to reach their full potential. I have been assured that the school will monitor the situation but meanwhile time is passing and DS is not making progress.

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Original poster

JustHope · 22/09/2017 14:47

*not allowed

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pizzaparty11 · 22/09/2017 15:43

They have just come back after 6 weeks off though haven't they?
.As someone else said the curriculum is spiral.My Y8 dd is in top set maths and the first topic they did was dividing decimals !! (something that I think is first taught in about Y5!!) but then they build on it with extending what they know about standard form , recurring decimals and how to write them as fractions.
But they have to go back to the basics all the time to refresh their memories and to see how things link

pizzaparty11 · 22/09/2017 15:46

I don't think they just go on test results either .After a year with them the teacher will be able to differentiate those who are developing the potential to think mathematically and those whose are well oiled sausage machines.

d270r0 · 22/09/2017 15:54

If hes been moved down a set it means he has not been doing ok in assessments. It means he has been getting among the lowest in the class and has been struggling.
Bear in mind we have just started a new school year so the work usually begins with consolidation of number work, stuff that yes, he will have done before. If he finds it easy he needs to tell the teacher while doing the work and she can give him extension work. But just because he is finding the number work easy does not mean he will find new material easy.

eyebrowsonfleek · 22/09/2017 18:21

In my experience as a parent, Maths is always ridiculously easy at the start of the school year.
They move kids sets depending on their assessment results here. In practical terms, some sets do the same work so moving down isn’t always a bad thing and it can be a confidence booster to be top of B set rather than bottom of A set.

JustRichmal · 23/09/2017 08:11

but meanwhile time is passing and DS is not making progress Is he prepared to put a couple of half hours work in at home every week so he does not fall behind the higher set and gets results that are too good for the school to ignore on his next test?

sendsummer · 23/09/2017 09:32

I agree with JustRichmal,

One of my DCs appears to achieve most things with effortless ease but got put down to a second maths set in year 10. It later transpired that it was a combination of silly mistakes on the end of year test and irritating the teacher by talking too much in class (as found work very easy). Anyway it made DC realise that not everything could be taken for granted which was a positive.
If your DS is clearly better than his present set, working below ability in class for half a year or so will not really be a big deal for the longer term. My DC achieved an A* in further maths A level (still without much effort) and is doing a maths based degree.

Traalaa · 23/09/2017 12:54

I'm guessing you wouldn't think it unfair if the situation was reversed and your son had moved up to the top set? Those kids who did move up, must just have done better than him in year 8. As others have said, he needs to accept that there's a reason he's been moved down and prove he's got the ability to move back up.

fwiw, my yr9 son's saying maths is easy too atm, but as lots of the others on here have said, it's just them cementing the basics. I'd bet the kids in your son's school's top set are doing similar to him and a bit bored too!

CauliflowerSqueeze · 23/09/2017 13:20

He needs to work harder and prove himself.
They aren't going to select a student who scored more highly than him and who works harder and so has more potential over your son.
They want the best results for them all.

RedSkyAtNight · 23/09/2017 13:23

The work in his new set can't be so far behind his old set, if DC were able to move up ...

CaretakerToNuns · 23/09/2017 13:33

I don't see why all classes just aren't mixed ability. Setting is unfair on the less academic children who are just shunted off to the bottom set where no one could care less about them.

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