Fed up of grammar school debate!

[Rose0]

We live in an area with 2 "good" comps and 1 "satisfactory" comp. My two older children went to one of the "good" comps and did excellently and had a great time (and are going on to great things!), and my third child liked it when we took a tour, so I intend to send her there.

However, we are less than a mile out of the catchment for a grammar school, and subsequently almost all of my third child's friends are taking the 11+ with the hope of attending the grammar school. We haven't looked at the grammar school - all i know it has excellent academic results but relatively poor sporting facilities (they actually have to get a bus to a leisure centre for most PE classes and my daughter is very sporty). I haven't got an interest in sending my daughter there, and she's expressed no interest in going or taking the 11+. Ideologically I also oppose grammar schools, though of course if she had asked me to look around we would have, and if she then loved it and wanted to apply I would unquestionably support her. My main issue here is the judgement I am now facing from the mums of all her friends - since returning after summer and explaining that my daughter will not be taking the 11+ (she would most likely pass - she's one of the brightest in her year of 60) I have received bizarre remarks ("so your older daughter's going to Oxford but you don't want to send your younger daughter to a good school" being one of my personal favourites...) and been forced to repeatedly explain myself, and am being made to feel like (in the words of one of the mums!) I am "depriving her of an opportunity".

How can I get them off my back? Am I really "depriving her of an opportunity" by not actively encouraging the grammar school? Argh please tell me secondary school stops being the focus of year 6 parent conversation throughout the year...

If you are happy with your choice then just smile and let it pass.

It's that time of year again, open evenings, 11+ tests, CAF deadline looming... Don't explain yourself to others, don't bother. You won't persuade them and they're just being an arse and giving you their judgements opinions

I'm surprised, to be honest. If you've sent the other two to the comp and they've done well, I'd expect other parents to be asking your opinion on things, not overly forcing their own on you. Also, our geographical situation is not dissimilar and I found the opposite to be the case: lots of parents telling me not to bother with the 11+.

Really, all you have to do is change the subject, abruptly if you want. They start talking about school choices, you start talking about ... anything; food prices, buying stuff for university, gardening.

Or just listen and smile with the smug air of someone who's already negotiated these waters and finds the journey a little dull.

I would point out that your younger daughter is going to the same secondary that taught her older sister well enough to get her into Oxford. I also agree that it's not their business and if your daughter is bright (as it seems that she is) then she will succeed wherever she goes.

In all honesty, if this is third time round for you, it's no surprise you're finding it boring. I guess it's the first time for your friends, though.

I was surprised too - this is the first year I've received such opposition (very few of my older childrens' friends took the 11+ and even fewer passed). I think it's about who the children mix with I suppose.

I am confident we're making the right choice - just don't want it to come to March/July/September and her to feel left out or like she's missing out because she's not going.

Oh OP, I do sympathise. I've had this type of thing in buckets when I applied for my dd's secondary school 2 years ago - however for me it was inverted snobbery as I chose not to send my dd to the feeder Secondary. Not that there was too much 'wrong' with the school, I just preferred a different one for my own dd (my dd got one of the highest SATS scores in the year). I still have parents who don't speak to me at school because of it, and now I'm applying for ds it's beginning to crank up again.

You'd have thought I'd have sprayed the school in shit the way some parents reacted to me.

I didn't talk about schools deliberately. However parents actively came to ask me, then the endless 'why?', then the slagging off of my chosen school, then even comments that I was no longer part of the community. It was awful. It really really got me down.

I don't agree with Grammar Schools either OP, but I don't think it's necessarily about this with the parents who are niggling you. I think it's purely anxiety that you're choosing something different to them. It makes them question that there's only one way of doing well. It irks them. I think it's bloody rude of them, especially as they must know your older dd got to Oxford from going to the very school you've chosen.

I don't have much advice. People advised me here not to talk about schools but it's hard when people cross the school yard to interrogate you. I just practised smiling through gritted teeth.

If I were you I would just repeat "Well, eldest dd loved it there and did really well so......"

Also "Well, it would be boring if we all did the same thing......"

If she's in Y6 then of course talk is going to be of secondary. It will stop once the deadline for applying has passed then start again on offer day.

We are having the opposite conversation. Last year all but 3 pupils from our primary went to the local secondary, and I think 100% of the neighbouring primary Y6 went there as well.

We have been to visit and didn't like it. We don't think it will suit our DD. Most people are incredulous that we are looking at having to pay for a bus/ drive her to another secondary when we could just send her to the local one. A large number of parents don't even bother looking anywhere else, which I find bizarre.

If I were in your situation I would be looking at the grammar definitely and yes I believe you are depriving her of an opportunity, but then you know your DD and the schools and only you could answer that. The fact that it's bothering you so much does suggest you are wondering if you are doing the right thing. If not, ignore them.

We have been to visit and didn't like it. We don't think it will suit our DD. Most people are incredulous that we are looking at having to pay for a bus/ drive her to another secondary when we could just send her to the local one. A large number of parents don't even bother looking anywhere else, which I find bizarre*

I had exactly this. People literally wanted me to list all my reasons for choosing different to them and/or made sneery remarks about my choice. Many of these parents had never even set foot in different school.

Sorry bit of a bold fail there.

Trampire I'm definitely experiencing that. I've received some awful comments - my older daughter was the school's first ever Oxbridge candidate and one of them said they were "surprised" I'd "let" her apply, as though my reluctance to explore the grammar option somehow translated to a lack of interest in education. These women seem to go out of my way to talk to me about it all and try and remind me that the grammar school gets 98% A*-C and 6-8 Oxbridge candidates a year and etc. Of course it does - the kids are kids who'd do well regardless of where they went and the school can afford to give them more attention.

Maybe my daughter would do slightly better academically there, which is probably why I'm allowing it to bother me - but I think she'd miss out socially, and in terms of sporting and drama opportunities. It's an almost painfully middle class school in a sleepy middle class town - the girls we know there all seem lovely, but their school and life experience seems very much a bubble (I think only 6% of pupils are on free school meals and less than 5% speak English as a second language) - which isn't the case just because of it being a grammar but also its location. I obviously don't want to voice this though out of fear of sounding rude. I don't disapprove of their decision unlike they apparently do of mine - it's just not the one I would make (unless my daughter wanted it!)

It's just frustrating more than anything really!!

I suppose they've also gleaned my overall opposition to the grammar school system, but I tried my best to keep that to myself and have never explicitly criticised it. It's just unavoidable with the amount they instigate conversation about it!

RoseO I totally understand how you're feeling.

For me, I think the other parents were irked because the school I chose does indeed have better academic results and much lower free school meals than the feeder school. I guess it's reputation is more MC. However that's not why I chose it. I chose it because of its Drama and Music and it's general approach to the Arts. Randomly I also fell in love with the school library which was stunning and I felt so at home (and it wasn't even me going to the school ). I just had a gut feeling that it was a better fit for my dd. Which it is indeed turning out to be so far.
The school also has a stunning and outstanding 6th form and the students are a very integral part of the whole school which I really liked (the other school has no sixth form)
Once having experience of the school I found that the whole school is anything but very MC, with some of the most talented pupils having come from some of the most deprived areas (it has a wide catchment) and the intake is extremely broad.

However the primary school parents decided that the only reason I chose that school was because I was a snob and 'too good' for the local school.
I was told that a child must be able to walk to school (I never did. I got the bus, then drove).
That my child wouldn't be able to visit friends (she does, it's just over a wider area).
It was hinted that I was a part of a 'problem' in sending dd to a different school I wasn't helping improve the local school.

You see, I found choosing a secondary school the most nerve wracking thing I've done in a long time and had lots of anxiety around it. Every time a parent foisted an uninvited opinion on me and told me why I was wrong it made me come home and question myself all over again. It's hard not to listen to those little voices that tell you you're doing the wrong thing.

I'll stop banging in now because it's something I could go on about for hours. It really added a lot of stress and anxiety to my life around school applications and it really really shouldn't have. Yes, it's no-ones business but some people just can't let it go.

All I can say is trust your gut. You didn't go far wrong before and you'll do the same again OP. Your dd will do extremely well, and will be happy.

Trampfire don't worry about ranting on - I could and indeed have ranted about this for hours. It's nice to hear that going against the grain worked for you and your daughter - your reasons are all totally valid. As are, I like to think, mine, as well as those of the other mums. Every child is different. The grammar is probably great for some, but the poor sports facilities and lack of social variety, as well as the fact I just don't see it as a fair way to work the system, all mean I don't think it's right for my daughter, and as she's expressed no interest I see no need to explore it!

Just wish the other mums were more accepting and would leave us be 😡

I am confident we're making the right choice - just don't want it to come to March/July/September and her to feel left out or like she's missing out because she's not going.

Have you had this conversation with your daughter now? I think you said she doesn't want to sit 11+/ go to the Grammar. Does she understand that some/most of her friends are likely to go there? She understands why the comp is better for her/ agrees it is? Hopefully discussing it all now will stop disappointment later on. You want her to understand she had a choice and the reasons why the choice was the right one for her. And also make sure she doesn't have to lose her friends because they are at a different school.

BurnTheBlackSuit We have definitely discussed it but you're right that I should keep doing so - I've told her that most of her friends plan on taking the test and therefore hopefully going to the grammar (and I have a feeling that some of the parents might pay for the private school 10 miles away if they don't pass!) but she has definitely turned her nose up at the sports facilities - which I think she's more bothered about than the academics. I'll definitely bring it up again thought, just to make sure she's certain. A lot of her friends from clubs outside of school and friends from the other class/after school clubs are going to the school, so I think she's actually quite looking forward to that (at the moment!)

Don't worry OP. You make the best decision with your children.

Just like some parents will choose private and get on with that choice and others will choose grammar and get on with making their choices.

Sadly, some parents don't seem to their precious dahling could possibly thrive in a comprehensive so feel the need to inform the world that their child is 'too academic' for a comp. Take the endless grammar school/11+ chat for what it is: a cock waving contest for pushy parents who think their child is an extension of themselves.

Your main worry then is that your daughter will feel she's missed out - the comments that the other parents are making are annoying but really just needling your worry.

OP, your dd sounds really rounded. The fact that she has friends in other sports clubs and knows what she's looking for in school facilities speaks volumes. It will stand her a good stead.

I've found (as I'm sure you did) that children don't always keep their Primary friends fur long in Secondary. My dd was lucky as she started on her own - while that was tough at first, she witnessed huge fallouts and dramas in others from old Primary friendships shifting at around March/April in Y7. She managed to pretty much bypass all that!

It's silly to choose a school based on existing friendships. I know you're not doing this but plenty of people do. I had this in spades too (and currently with ds)....."but all his friends are going somewhere else. It's so cruel"

Year 6 is a nightmare - the climax of years of primary school chatting, snobbery, rivalry, superiority/inferiority complexes coming to a head. Been through it several times and each time different problems. Basically just got to smile and ignore it and look forward to year 7 when all that crap mostly disappears.

I had this in year 6 as my others went to local indie school but we've run out of money so dd3 has just started at local state. I had all kinds of comments and tbh it made me feel a bit miserable. 2 weeks in and she's loving the state school, has a nice bunch of friends and is much more chatty and confident.

a cock waving contest for pushy parents who think their child is an extension of themselves.

Is absolutely what I'm faced with. Grr. I will just have to continue to grit my teeth and hope to not relive it all again when DD3 is in year 6 (I've honestly not faced this before - with the older two children there was a fairly even split across the four schools and no one tried to push their opinion on one another!)

Greenbucket I'm glad it's worked out fine for you. You're right though - the comments just make me miserable. I don't want to be rude and tell them sharply to mind their own business (I've tried wishy washy "at the end of the day it's her/our decision") but at the same time I so do...

That's what it sounds like rose.

Just remember the parents who are confident in their decision to go private will get on with it, thr ones who are happy putting their child through 11+ will get on with it and those who are happy with thr comp will get on with it.

The types of people who spend ages going on at length about how intelligent yheir children are etc are probably just deeply insecure or excessively image conscious. (In my head they are the same types of parents who complains that their child is in set 2 when set 1 & 2 both have a mix of A/A* students. Obviously, thr number on thr timetable makes a huge difference to their egos)

I did admit to myself that I was worried that I was letting her down in some way, which is why it got to me. Time will tell! So far so good!