English GCSE remark : expert objective advice needed!!

[Piggywaspushed]

Ok, I have been batting this round on a few threads and need to preface this by saying I am an English teacher... but it isn't helping me at all!

DS got a 5 in Lang and a 6 In Lit. Both below (rather generous ) target grades of 7.
We d found out he was 5 UMS marks into 5 in Lang and therefore needs 8 marks (I think) to get a 6. Not normal remark territory and I'd be terrified of him being downgraded.

However, I have now found out his breakdown and it is bizarre:

Language paper 1

1.4/4
2.4/8
3.3/8
4.12/20
5.8/24 + 6/16

Language paper 2

1.4/4
2.5/8
3.5/12
4.6/16
5.18/24 + 11/16 (this is amazing compared to paper 1!)

The last wording is not mine but the HOD.

The discrepancy between P1 and P2 is marked and the section Bs are the real oddity given that they aren't very different tasks. I have checked and he did paragraph. You also need to know his spelling is highly proficient. He has that teenage predilection for commas and probably didn't use much punctuation other than full stops and commas. His handwriting is hard to read sometimes but he does tend to write quite lengthy answers and was (before the exams) quite confident in jumping through the hoops of each question.

I would be interested to hear from fellow English teachers who have no emotional investment in this what they might advise? I'd like Paper 1 looked at - but once seen it can't be remarked.

I know a 5 is 'good enough' but he is a better student than that. In one of his lit papers he missed an 8 by one mark!

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Cafeconleche I agree, it does seem that way.

So cross, and at this rate likely to be nearly £200 worse off... .

I will know better next time...

need it...

Sorry to hear that :(

I haven't checked in today so just seen this. To busy being told how lazy I am by a teacher baiter on another thread.

Because I am sure the abiding impression you all have on me here is that I am lazy, uncommitted and carefree :)

Oh well.

Still waiting here!!

Clearly the 'teacher baiter' is deluded Piggy. Feel very cross on your behalf...

Marking is so odd and requesting remarks is unnecessarily stressful! My DD was 3 marks off an A in OCR French. Her two exam papers were very high A and very high A. Her speaking controlled assessment was full UMS. By contrast, her written controlled assessment was a middling B.

Her teacher was astonished at this because she'd informally assessed the written controlled assessment as a secure A (the same teacher accurately assessed DD's speaking assessment as a high A).

She's a very experienced teacher (and French!) and was absolutely certain it was grossly undermarked. But we heard today that there's been no change to the mark. Funnily enough, we were perfectly happy with the A before we went for the remark...

JanetheObscure it seems to be an exercise in futility for some. I had (obviously unrealistic) expectations of success/upgrade and find myself cross at being so over-optimistic naive some might say. And even more annoyed that I'm nearly £200 out of pocket (unless a miracle happens with the Eng. Lit with that one mark needed). We are not well-off and that £200 will be sorely missed.

It has taught me a salutary lesson going forward.

I was hoping to convert some of DS's high Bs to As but it's not gone to plan.

Sorry that your DD's remark didn't result in an upgrade .

Thanks, Teddy. An A is, of course, fantastic :) so we're not really worried.

What's obvious from the experience of many on here is that the marking of the "subjective" subjects can be random, to say the least, and that remark requests can result in total joy or simply raise false hopes.

Should also have said that I'm sorry it didn't work out for you either, Teddy, and that it cost you so much money. :(

Sorry to hear that Teddygirl and Jane. Surely between us there must be a few more gains. Can the AQA people get the papers back after the review if they want to see whether the marks were fair? It is so lacking in transparency if nobody but the Board has seen the paper and it is not in their interests to let grades go up as they loose money and credibility.

I have a horrible feeling this gets even worse at A level when university places hang on subjective marking. I am very glad my son is doing sciences and maths so marking is much more objective, although science mark schemes at GCSE can be a bit random.

Yes AQA can get the papers back as long as you pay the fee.

We didn’t bother as I don’t actually care about the detail of the marking, we just wanted to know if it could get the extra marks which in our case thankfully it did.

Englisharking should not be subjective at all: excellent grammar; and understanding of the text plus a wide vocabulary. Reasonable spelling too.
So many grads cannot write a bloody summary of anything or even a letter I am not sure how there are so many As and Bs.

To get top marks for SPaG you actually need more than reasonable spelling : it needs to be flawless!

The understanding of the text bit tends to be where the subjectivity comes in to English. The issue actually ,I reckon , lies with inexperienced and under qualified markers who are looking for exact things off a list and can't think beyond objectively. I noticed yesterday in moderation that one of my junior colleagues hadn't really noticed the words 'indicative content' or 'MAY include'. And I don't believe the markers have read all the books.

Ktown the grads you're talking about didn't do this new, very difficult specification!
I'm inclined to agree with Piggy's last point. It didn't help that the sample exam papers were annotated differently to the actual computer list. To be fair to AQA, their actual marking guidance stresses that students are given credit for what they do. Nevertheless, there was no foundation paper, so a lot of borderline pass students were at a real disadvantage.
On the other hand, I hope schools pay some attention to this. From what I know locally, some schools haven't increased teaching time for the new specifications and have spent most of the time on the literature papers, thinking that the skills automatically transfer. They don't. Students really need a lot of practice to do well.

Sorry, I mean automatically transfer to the language paper! No marks there for clarity!
Also I really sympathise with those who have been disappointed and so close to the next grade. There has to be a better way of reviewing papers at the boundary without parents having to pay for it.
A student I'm tutoring for November resit is 1 mark off a level 4. Until Imsaid she should put in for a review the school hadn't mentioned it. I think her parents just got the request through in time but it'll take a while to hear back so I'm tutoring her just in case.

Yes, and two further points writing a summary is specifically in the new GCSE (although maybe not at post graduation standard!) as is formal letter writing (but not of the type employees might churn out and not typed)

Bur , secondly, those skills are life skills and very specific : a graduate would no more learn them at university than a school student would. It is the role of many people, including employers, to train people in those skills to a high standard.

And ,thirdly (!) : this thread is explicitly not a student or education criticising thread . it has been very positive and supportive of students , teachers, and their endeavours to o the best for every child. That is all.

Good point
Hopefully there will be an improvement in the next few years

Hi, I'm late to the party on this. Dc1 got 7s in both English GCSEs and has gone onto college to do A levels. The school contacted her and suggested she put in for a remark on English Lang as she was 2 marks off an 8.

We sent in the cheque and form just over a week ago so I'm guessing from the later comments we missed the boat!

I'm just hoping that she was far enough away from the 6/7 boundary that she won't go down a grade. Especially as none of us were bothered until the school contacted dc1

Agree with you Piggy and I'm always tired of hearing the list of new things schools are supposed to teach that are really life skills, or skills employers should cover in training.
My comment on the literature is just an observation that I think this is a learning process for schools as well! There were a lot of changes brought in very quickly without a pilot scheme and enough time to adjust. From what I can see all the new material is now being covered in KS3 so hopefully a lot clearer for future candidates.
My year 11 DS keeps assuring me it's all 'fine'!

The last of the reviews are in and no more grade changes.We only put in those five marks or fewer away from a grade 4 as that's the pass mark that matters.

Up two, down two/four or stayed the same. The whole review process cost is about £1000. The successes represent approx 20% which is what Ofqual reported as the standard from last year's requests.

On reflection, re timing, it was the negative surprises or the closest to 4 we put in first - that's mainly where the grade changes happened. The rest were speculative.

Otherwise there were very few unexpected grades in the first round of marking. We could identify the mistakes, the weak or the cba (can't be a..ed) mainly by looking at the mark breakdown.

We'll never have that budget again - unlike some schools. On the whole we're pleased with the overall percentage of grade change passes as they represent what we thought was deserved, or have been life changing for the students who squeaked in there.

Next job is to order scrips to analyse where the good could be improved and the bad could be re-evaluated. For example Paper 1 AQA Language Q2 and Q3, both out of 8, generally returned less than half marks. I know I taught to AQA standards but their L4 examplar responses seemed to be a conjunctive discourse rather than a clear understanding of the text demonstrated by their L3 exemplar.

I raised the point at the training and asked which examiner had written the exemplars. The chief examiner at the session was quite coy about that.

A file of scrips to analyse will tell us much more than the speculation about a mathematically marked first attempt ever will.
I hope new, real, exemplars will be available asap.

Me too!

What's a conjunctive discourse?

I wish my centre did this level of analysis...it's both inclination, and time , I guess. (Huge school!)

Conjunctive discourse - I don't know. It seems when discussing, for example, language points that the words and phrases, techniques, sentence structure (bullet points) could/must be addressed but not in isolation. That it's the cumulative effect that matters.

I seem to remember that fishing for points has always been borderline, and discouraged. It's about the discussion and the justification of one's interpretation.

The writer uses alliteration, 'Babbling brook'. This interests the reader. This shows me that the writer describes the brook is babbling.

Tara

The writer uses alliteration, 'Babbling brook'. This interests the reader. This shows me that the writer describes the brook is babbling.

Is that from a model answer?

Well we had 4 more back today 1 7 to 8, 1 4 to 5 and 2 unchanged, all lit. Our experience has been a lot more movement on grades this year in English, all up so far. Implies atrocious marking initially.

Slightly passive aggressive email from DS's exam officer today reassuring that she will email me as soon as she gets his Language outcome.

She confirmed the Lit was no change at all. Just stayed exactly as it was.

Doesn’t give you confidence she will chase it though does it piggy?

I feel frustrated for you, I hope she comes back to you soon.