Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Sam Freedman wouldn't send his kids private

236 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/08/2017 13:08

Because he went to a private school and had no idea that the world of working class people existed until he started working in education.

twitter.com/samfr/status/898845134028029952

I guess it helps that he lives in London where the state schools are great.

(Posting this because I've seen people speculate on here about where he will send his kids).

OP posts:
DriftingDreamer · 24/08/2017 06:53

It's all getting a bit Nah nah ne nah nah now.....
Chances are she has more experience of how deprived people live than your dc do.

GetAHaircutCarl · 24/08/2017 08:45

On the university point, there is now most definitely a two tier system.

With the high cost of accommodation at many universities and the loans available often not covering living expenses, many young people can no longer afford any meaningful choice and are being priced out of the top tier.

Would posters here not pay for their DC to attend those universities then?

Hillingdon · 24/08/2017 09:08

Having been to a bog standard state school and my children just finishing private education there is a HUGE difference. I lived in London but realistically was rather sheltered and I had little confidence. My mother thought it would be useful to learn to type in order to get a job. There was no talk of a career.

I look at my kids with the confidence to go into London on their own, to fix problems themselves when they miss the last train, to avoid the drug dealers that according to my older son are hanging around street corners in various parts of London and I SO don't regret sending them to a private.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 24/08/2017 09:11

Quite. When state school DD started university in London she was forever accidentally going home to crack dens, mistaking them for her halls.

Hillingdon · 24/08/2017 09:11

We also have to remember that 50% of the time the children are on holiday so all this 'well they live in a bubble etc' is not true. My older DS works in an office or the local pub during university holidays. Mixing and not being segrated at all!

I think some on this thread are living in the days of Tom Brown's Schooldays!

BertrandRussell · 24/08/2017 11:51

"I look at my kids with the confidence to go into London on their own, to fix problems themselves when they miss the last train, to avoid the drug dealers that according to my older son are hanging around street corners in various parts of London and I SO don't regret sending them to a private"

I've read this paragraph lots of times and it still doesn't make sense.......

TwistedReach · 24/08/2017 13:02

Bertrand I assume she thinks that children who don't go to private school can't do those things...

Lurkedforever1 · 24/08/2017 13:05

drifting if someone chooses to make ridiculous blanket statements about all privately educated dc then I will address that.

Re the earlier point about people only focusing on bad state schools and not bad privates, in my case it's because it's a non issue. You have full choice in private, unlike the state sector. Only exceptions to that would be private none ms or full bursary where the parents haven't had a full choice.

BertrandRussell · 24/08/2017 14:24

But you have no problem with stupid blanket statements about state schools and their pupils? Grin

BertrandRussell · 24/08/2017 14:25

Sorry-scrub "stupid" and insert "ridiculous"..

Lurkedforever1 · 24/08/2017 20:00

Tell me when I have made ridiculous blanket statements about all state schools or their pupils?

Unless you consider the opinion the state system itself is inherently unfair a ridiculous blanket statement?

Hillingdon · 25/08/2017 17:47

I am responding to some on this thread that think that private school pupils live in a bubble with no idea of the outside world

noblegiraffe · 25/08/2017 17:55

Well Sam Freedman said that he did, which is why he doesn't want to send his kids private.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 25/08/2017 18:04

"I am responding to some on this thread that think that private school pupils live in a bubble with no idea of the outside world"

Many do! It's a bit daft to try to pretend otherwise.

Lurkedforever1 · 25/08/2017 20:15

Many state school kids also live in bubbles. That's down to parenting, and to a lesser extent the individual schools.

slightlyglittermaned · 25/08/2017 20:45

It's pretty hard not to be aware of the kids in your class who can't afford new shoes, isn't it? Rather easier if they aren't sitting next to you but across town in a different building.

Plus, let's be honest. Some parents buy education because they want that bubble - a former senior manager at a place I worked would bloody wank on about how exclusive his kids' new school was for the whole lunch hour, how he couldn't possibly send them to the village school with all the council estate kids with single mothers in pyjamas at the school gate, bloody slappers, blah blah blah.

Lurkedforever1 · 25/08/2017 21:20

I'm sure even the most cocooned privately educated dc have seen people who can't afford new shoes. Whether they attend your school isn't the important part, it's why you think they have old shoes and what assumptions you make based on that about them as a person. Sitting near a deprived dc doesn't create understanding.

Yes some parents want to buy a bubble, but that attitude isn't limited to parents paying fees.

slightlyglittermaned · 25/08/2017 21:43
Hmm
Out2pasture · 25/08/2017 22:05

I don't think a child under the age of 8 would notice outward signs of depravation and i'm not sure about teens as some are very inwardly focused.
children like most adults probably assume other people live lives similar to their own.

Lurkedforever1 · 25/08/2017 22:37

slightly do you think pick on the poor kid is something done only by private school pupils to other kids they see on the street? Or that all the idiots who enjoy poor bashing and believe the anti benefits propaganda in the mail etc are all privately educated? Because I can assure you they are not.

GetAHaircutCarl · 26/08/2017 08:50

Of course kids notice.
And more importantly they're parents notice.

GetAHaircutCarl · 26/08/2017 08:50

Their

BertrandRussell · 26/08/2017 09:15

Lurked- I am trying very hard to understand your points, but I'm afraid I don't. Please could you explain?

Lurkedforever1 · 26/08/2017 11:38

bert my point is that growing up with no understanding of how life is for others is not something that is exclusive to privately educated dc.

I'm in full agreement that some privately educated people have no idea about how bad uk poverty really is. And even some that do know will have the attitude that most are responsible for their own poverty. But I also think that the same is true for some state educated dc.

I also firmly believe that the main problem with deprivation in this country isn't just acknowledging it exists, it is the refusal to acknowledge why it exists.

Taking the old shoes example I bet your dd didn't see the handful of deprived dc at her school and come to the conclusion their parents were just lazy scroungers who spent their benefits on sky and drink over shoes and who could be more affluent if they worked hard. And I bet your ds didn't develop empathy and understanding about poverty simply because there were more deprived dc at his school. Their attitudes and knowledge will be down to upbringing, not their schools intake.

Plenty of parents choose state schools based on the intake too, and the desire to keep their dc away from undesirables, that isn't just in privates either.

My reference to the mail is because it is a simple way to encompass the judgement and lack of understanding around deprivation and how those in poverty live.

I live amongst it, and so I couldn't have sheltered dd from it's existence. But I could quite easily have sheltered dd from why it exists, and influenced her to think that in 99% of cases it is self inflicted and those people are all inferior, rather than less fortunate than her. And it's much easier for a parent in a mc area, even in a genuinely mixed school, let alone one that selects on religion/ability/postcode etc, to provide that sheltered bubble if they choose.

HPFA · 26/08/2017 15:24

I agree with Lurked that going to a state school will not mean that you necessarily mix with people poorer than you or make you any more sympathetic to their circumstances if you do. You might just as easily decide all the problems experienced by people in your school are their own fault.

I understand the argument that if everyone had to send their children to state schools it would mean politicians having to give education a higher priority, although I'm not sure if that would be the result in practice. But I'm not sure it would result in us all being more rounded and sympathetic human beings.