Sam Freedman wouldn't send his kids private

[noblegiraffe]

Because he went to a private school and had no idea that the world of working class people existed until he started working in education.

twitter.com/samfr/status/898845134028029952

I guess it helps that he lives in London where the state schools are great.

(Posting this because I've seen people speculate on here about where he will send his kids).

Twisted - would you ban business class flights or luxury hotels because not everyone can afford them. "
Can you explain how this is even remotely relevant?

The relevance is that some on this thread are telling people how to spend their money. If I had the confidence in the state system of course I would use it but I don't.

We could have had the expensive education or the business class flights/hotels. Sadly we couldn't have both - apart from one instance where we were upgraded for free - it was fab but really not worth the £££'s people pay for it. Having said that I have someone I work with who does a admin type role. doesn't earn huge amounts.He goes on holiday once a year and wont go unless he can go Club class. For him its a very important part of the holiday and with no children why shouldn't he!

Hillingdon- I have unfortunately done considerably more then step foot into many private schools. My DS, however never has and he has now finished school.

As I said, although children's lives will be unfairly impacted on due to their parent's wealth or poverty in all kinds of ways- other choices do not necessitate the absolute segregation of children due to wealth or poverty in the way that private education does.

But if I could-then yes, I would want to tackle other forms of inequality too, primarily through increased taxation.

Because I believe private education is a bad thing, and among all the unfairness and inequity, schooling should be fair, I would, naturally -

Ban parents reading to their children.
Make all parents have protracted and unpleasant divorces early in their children's lives.
Ban every product that's better than another, and make everything be sold in grey packaging, and we'd all drive the same car, and go on the same holiday.
Make everyone feed their children nuggets every day

But also, buy a ££££ mansion in the catchment of a leafy comp and be very happy that state provision can be unequal across the country.

Of course I would - that's the only possible logic for anyone who has a belief about anything at all based on their personal principles!

"The relevance is that some on this thread are telling people how to spend their money."
I'm not. I'm talking about the sort of education system I want and the sort of society I want to live in. It is a matter of supreme indifference to me where people spend their holidays.

Could I ask Twisted what your involvement was with private schools please?

I went to a state school and did Ok but wasn't pushed. I looked at the state system when looking a primary schools. We also had the 11+ in our area )South Bucks) I still smile when I see people claim their child got into a grammar without any extra tutoring. Tutoring was rife!

Corbyn said he divorced his wife because she insisted on a grammar for their child and please correct me if I am wrong - their child did end up going to one didn't they!

I don't think Corbyn has ever said this directly. His wife said that her wish to send their child to a grammar contributed to their divorce. Presumably after the divorce she had custody and sent their child to the school of her choice. Unless he was prepared to murder his wife to gain custody himself I'm not exactly sure what you think he should have done to prevent this.

Whilst this point has been done to death opponents of grammar schools are not opposed to grammar schools themselves as being the source of all evil, they are opposed to a selective SYSTEM. Whether your child attends a grammar or a secondary modern they are still part of that system. You may as well argue that parents in a selective area are hypocrites for sending their child to a secondary modern if they are opposed to selection.

There's also plenty of posts on Mumsnet from people looking for an area of the country where their child can have a stab at the 11+ but still go to a good comprehensive if they fail. So you live somewhere like Thame in Oxfordshire to access the selective system that means most children in Bucks have to go to secondary moderns but you yourself are avoiding any bad consequences for your own children by positioning yourself in comprehensive Oxfordshire!! I don't blame parents for doing this - clearly exploiting county borders in this way is a perfectly sensible thing to do on an individual level. It just slightly annoys me that doing this never seems to raise any ethical issues for people, especially when people in Kent and Bucks who can't access comprehensives get criticised for not sending their kids to them.

Personally, I've always said I would like a law that says before you sit the 11+ you have to sign a paper saying if your child fails you have to send them to the nearest secondary modern. No hopping over a county border, no going private. If you support the selective system, you support the system fully and you go to the school that the system says is "right" for your child. It will never happen.

There's an intersection between 'how you spend your money' and 'what you are saying about/doing to society when you spend your money'.

Spend your money on caviare, I'll think, well lucky you if you can afford it.
Spend your money on a golden toilet, I'll think, bit flashy and daft, but hey, it's your money.
Spend it on a hotel in Dubai, I'll think you're a bit of a dick. But hey, your money.
Spend it on a BMW X5, I'll think, that's a bit of a crap choice, environmentally (and aesthetically, for my tastes), and I bet you drive it like a tool, too, because everyone always seems to.
Spend it on private school, I'll think 'I really wish you wouldn't' - spend it on private school and go round saying you wouldn't touch the local state schools with a bargepole because the kids all chew gum and swear, and throw tables in the refectory, etc, and I'll think you're a bit of a dick.

I went to one of the 'top' private schools in the country and work with children, adolescents and families- in a way that means I am often involved with their schools, so see many different kinds of schools- and the different types of difficulties that tend to be more prevalent in different types of schools.

The said 'top school' that I went to for example, had many young girls struggling with eating disorders alongside their A*s.

My son's school had different difficulties. It was not an outstanding school according to ofsted, me or my son. It was in many ways struggling. Most of his middle class friends at primary, went privately at secondary.

Twisted - I'm surprised you agree to work with children who are privately educated since you hate it so much.
Is there no way you could just work with state educated children?

Twisted - I didn't mean that sarcastically, it's just that i would find it hard to work with something or someone I really disapproved of.
I don't feel very strongly about much politically, but for example my son has been helping some refugees from Venezuela and the things they've told him would make one's hair stand on end.
Therefore I couldn't work with someone who was a supporter of the Chavez/Maduro regime.

I agree with Dapple Grey tbh. What about schools where there is no ambition for the children? Where it is seen as acceptable to have a child very young with no thought to the consequences. Where learning is a dirty word, where parents cannot be bothered to get their kids ready for school and breakfast is not even thought of!

I speak as a child of a former teacher who used to take in a loaf for toast every morning because some of the parents just couldn't care less.

Banning private schools (it will never happen) will not fix people's eating disorders.

Has anyone said that all state schools are good?

"Twisted - I'm surprised you agree to work with children who are privately educated since you hate it so much."

Good lord, it's not the children's fault they're at private school!

Dapple, I hate the unfair education system that segregates children. I do not hate any of the children.

I should add nor do I hate their parents or teachers! I hate the system and think it is very bad for society.

Posting the latest report which is reasonable
reports.ofsted.gov.uk/index.php?q=filedownloading/&id=2583564&type=1&refer=0

My DC's comp is outstanding, and has many m/c children.

Unlike 100% of private schools though it also has large numbers of low and middle achieving w/c dc's.

Those of you who think your privately educated dc's live in the same world that state educated dc live in - dream on. They spend most of their waking hours in a social environment entirely unrepresentative of normal society.

Oddly, despite the outstanding OFSTED, kids going off to Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford, Guildhall, into West End plays, off to medical school, a lot of local parents wouldn't touch it, and prefer to send their dc to one of the three super elite private schools within a mile of my dc's comp.

Oddly, despite the outstanding OFSTED, kids going off to Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford, Guildhall, into West End plays, off to medical school, a lot of local parents wouldn't touch it, and prefer to send their dc to one of the three super elite private schools within a mile of my dc's comp.

Sounds like a great school. Why does it bother you that other people in your neighbourhood are choosing to go elsewhere?

'Why does it bother you that other people in your neighbourhood are choosing to go elsewhere?'

Maybe because it means actively supporting and contributing to a system that actively segregates children based on wealth.

Well partly because they wouldn't necessarily get into it due to its lottery admission system

When the children go to university they won't be segregated there - they'll attend the same lectures, play sport together, if they are in halls of residence they'll eat together - no matter where they went to school.

Qualifying for university entrance is in itself segregation, not everyone is accepted. No different than applying to a private school.
both my 2 sons spent their first uni years in quad rooms. Each only had 1 of the four that came from deprived backgrounds. Daughter on a floor of 7 young ladies, 4 of which came from higher earning backgrounds, the other 3 (daughter included) had parents who were professionals in their fields, so none from a financially deprived background.

mini Well you should approve of my choice to go private then if mixing is what you want. After all if dd had attended the state option she'd be segregated by deprivation. So private allows a nice social mix, because she still gets to experience the deprived side away from school.

And no I'm not 'dreaming' her experience either. Chances are she has more experience of how deprived people live than your dc do.