Sam Freedman wouldn't send his kids private

[noblegiraffe]

Because he went to a private school and had no idea that the world of working class people existed until he started working in education.

twitter.com/samfr/status/898845134028029952

I guess it helps that he lives in London where the state schools are great.

(Posting this because I've seen people speculate on here about where he will send his kids).

Bertrand I am really interested in your point that we can't control for individuals being privileged - presumably because otherwise you pretty quickly end up saying the state should bring up children to ensure nobody gets "better" parents than another - but we should tackle institutional privilege.

Would you ban private schools? i.e. make it illegal to pay for private educational provision? (And if so would tutors etc also fall under that prohibition?)

And then I guess the same question applies to healthcare (and again, you get into the issue of paying for private physio/speech therapy etc).

I - like most people I assume - am really troubled by the lack of social mobility and the stark differences in life chances for children. But I am equally nervous that the policies for addressing those inequalities get pretty authoritarian pretty quickly.

Would be very interested in your views!

Given the power the yes I would ban private schools- but I'm not daft enough to think that's an option!

I honestly don't want to get into the health debate (it won't surprise you to know that I am opposed to private health care too!) but I don' think it's comparable to education. Having private health care does not confer privilege in other areas of your life. Private education does.

I'm guilty of believing most comprehensive schools are crap. It's not surprising given my own experiences over the years.

I went to a school that managed a 7% gcse grade a-c pass rate with 0 students gaining a place at university the year I left. Its never been above 30% and is now closed. Thats a crap school.

Roll on several years and I live in the catchment of 5 high schools. 4 have been 'Requires Improvement' for the entire time my dc have been of high school age. 1 has been rated 'good' for around 6 or 7 years after being 'satisfactory' before. They do get students into university but its rare for those universities to be Russell Group and they rarely get Oxbridge entrants. I believe its around 3 over the last 10 years but none in the last 6 or 7 years. Thats also crap.

1 other high school was closed and demolished after years of attempts at turning it around. For the last 3 years of its life not 1 student gained a place at a single university. Thats crap too.

My experience is overwhelmingly comprehensive schools are crap.

I really love that so many people think that most state comprehensive schools are good. I would love to believe that too but my experience suggests its a fairy tale.

If you only have the options I have then its going to taint my view I suppose. I dont know anyone who's child attends an outstanding high school or anyone who has the choice of more good rated schools over those that require improvement.

So yes I believe that most state comprehensive schools are crap.

78% of state secondaries are rated good or outstanding.

Incidentally only 69% of the nearly 1000 private schools that come under Ofsted (not ISC) are good or outstanding.

Incidentally only 69% of the nearly 1000 private schools that come under Ofsted (not ISC) are good or outstanding

Noble - then the remaining 31% must have something going for them or they'd close.

There is no way you will ever stop parents trying to add that little bit more or even doing it unconsciously. My daughter's comp is excellent but doesn't stop me trying to understand her science text book in order to help her a little more effectively before a test. Her father is the most unpushy parent alive but I once heard them having a lively discussion/debate about what is a sport and what is a game. When her teachers tell me how good she is at arguing a case am I supposed to think that's unconnected?

And on the last page of this document from the Royal Latin School (state grammar in Bucks) there's a reference to children who may need extra help at school "and at home." Whatever the school (presumably except for boarding) if you're in a position to give that extra help every night you will do it.

Michaela Academy was rated outstanding no?

Yet I've seen posters here tearing it to shreds (including work posted online by children).

Good for him. Neither would I.

True dat HP.

And we usually applaud parents for doing whatever they can to help their DC educationally: except pay school fees.

It seems like some people want 'school' to be the same everyone in terms of resources, provided they can top up on the side.

dapple this Ofsted report is pretty damning (it's the Rees-Mogg school) but people just say Ofsted are wrong and it's actually fab. I guess if you pay a fortune for something you're then invested in it

reports.ofsted.gov.uk/index.php?q=filedownloading/&id=2486749&type=1&refer=0

There was a really terrible state school near me, failing on all counts, that was closed down. A bunch of parents petitioned for it to be kept open as their kids liked it and were doing well.

Ofsted certsinly can be wrong, particularly when it comes to policies that don't make much sense for a particular cohort are not flexible.

My DD's 11 to 16 school missed outstanding due to refusing to implement various registration policies.

It was one of the best schools I've ever experienced ( and I've experienced quite a few). The wonders they worked with an academically mixed cohort was miraculous.

Sorry, forgot to pose link to document.

www.royallatin.org/images/YearSevenCNW/RLSKS3CurriculumOverview201618.pdf

It's strange how a bad state school condemns the entire sector while a bad private school is a one off.......

the hill house certainly looks amazing from the website and better than our so called outstanding (boot camp style) local comp.

The paragraph in the Hill House Ofsted report concerning no-one having a clue about fire safety would put me off a bit.....

Yes, not always a good idea to take a school website as evidence of school quality regarding e.g. Keeping your kids safe.

"our so called outstanding (boot camp style) local comp"

Tell us more?

I have known both Hill House and Holland Park parents. I would choose the former. Really from a belief that 'happy children learn' . HP has a reputation for being quite rigid.

Happy children are all well and good but I'd also like mine to be safe.

You'd send a child to Hill House in the face of its recent OFSTED?

Good on him.

There is a difference between allowing your children to have privileges that others (unfairly don't) such as holidays or even adequate food and housing etc and actively contributing to the social segregation of children based on wealth. I think this is one of the most damaging things in our society currently and if I could I would ban private schools in a heartbeat.

Yes there is still unfairness within the state sector with rich parents moving near the more desired schools, but usually these schools will still be much more economically and class mixed than private schools.

I cannot see any ethical argument for allowing children to be segregated in the way that are currently. For those who think that London schools are so different, in many London boroughs with extremes of rich and poor, the state secondaries have very few of the rich (or even middle class) children, as their parents often won't set foot near the local comp, let alone let their child near it.

Dumbledore is right. He will get a fab education. He will live in the right place, and be part of the correct catchment area. Time and time again these liberal lefties bleat about being equal etc but then its revealed that they actually go to a selective state school, grammar school or private school.

There used to be someone on MN's who bereated grammar schools but sent her first child to one. I think she was only complaining because her second didn't pass the 11+. Was it Seeker?? Or am I going mad!

Most of the previous Labour PM's such as Wilson and Callaghan used the private system. Corbyn said he divorced his wife because she insisted on a grammar for their child and please correct me if I am wrong - their child did end up going to one didn't they!

And of course the biggest fibber of all Diane Abbott. Had a big issue with the private sector and then send her son to one.

Twisted - would you ban business class flights or luxury hotels because not everyone can afford them. I honestly don't think you have set foot in a private school. I went to a rubbish state sec modern.

My children go/went to a fab private boarding school and now we are nearly at the end of their education I could not have wished for a better experience for them. They are confident articulate young men who don't live in a bubble and who absolutely live in the real world. Any indictation that they started taking this for granted would be smacked right down by DH and myself.

Its not been easy, both of us work full time, and of course there are tons of things we could have spent our money on but I don't regret a minute of it.

Have you seen the prices of houses in top comprehensive catchment areas? Unless you want to live in a socialist mess then surely what one spends on schooling, housing cars, clothes, evenings out is nothing to do with anyone else.

Is that his mum interjecting early on?