State Schools Eclipse Eton in rankings for A-Level Science

[evenstrangerthings]

Your Life has today published a new school ranking based on STEM subject performance at A Level and ability to deliver skills for the jobs of today and the future. Several schools have climbed more than 1,000 places in new STEM rankings, while Eton and Harrow drop out of the top 100. In some instances poorly performing schools according to Ofsted have a higher than average STEM ranking. On the back of findings, Your Life Chair Edwina Dunn, has called for an ‘urgent rethink’ of the way schools are assessed to equip the country for a post BREXIT world.

Report and full table at:

https://www.yourlife.org.uk/urgent-rethink-schools-assessment-required-equip-uk-post-brexit-worldd_

That overlap is shrinking. Hardly anybody can afford school fees now.

If you have a small house and limited funds,squashing extra adults in is hardly a cushion. The middle are already squeezed.The fact is for all but the rich after uni a job is a priority and there is very unlikely to be a free job handed over by daddy or daddy's equally rich friends to give ones cv a leg up. This being on top of the kudos of a private education,private school contacts,better results as a result of tiny classes and the best teachers.

Oh come on 100% bursaries are few and far between. Fees with a 30% or 50% are out of reach for most.

"I really think the huge advantages privately educated children have needs to be recognised and restricted".
Limp it's got nothing to do with private education, it's all about the wealth of the parents not the school they attend. You can have all the advantages and still attend a state school. Many on here believe there state school offers exactly the same as an independent school and that their wealth will make up any shortfall if it exists and I assume give them the necessary leg up. Secondly how do you intend to "restrict" the opportunities of those educated in the independent sector? Stop them going to university? Make them study pointless subjects like history of art? Limit what universities they can go too? Or how about prevent them from taking any IGCSE/A levels orperhaps even better don't teach them to read.
We live in an unequal society, this rightly or wrongly is life. if you restrict those educated in the independent sector they'll find other ways round it. They'll go the US or other countries. They still get good jobs etc because that's what's having money and connections does for you.

The fact is very few wealthy parents are going to send their DC to your average lack lustre comp or even grammar. Masseeeeve classes and crap resources and zero contacts are pretty hard to swallow if you can pay for better. So they do. If a private education adds nothing to their wealth why do they fork out for it?

Re restricting I'm sure there is plenty they can do. I personally would look at the percentage of privately educated children and make unis ensure places are only allocated to the same percentage. Ditto any jobs in companies in any way funded by public money. That way private kids could still apply but have the same level of competition and their education would buy very little.

I'm sure others far more educated in this area could come up with other/better alternatives.

The list appears to include only schools and not sixth form or tertiary colleges, which makes this sort of comparison rather pointless. There are numerous high performing sixth form colleges with large numbers of students taking STEM subjects and doing very well eg Greenhead, Hills Road, Hereford.

It's not your school that brings advantages it's your home life. My DS's are have MC educated parents, we live in a great area, rural, no crime, clean, with predominately other MC families we basically socialise with MC families and friends we do MC things, our DS's have been exposed to art music drama literature etc from a very early age, we eat MC food, we and our MC friends and families have MC expectations. Doing well at school, going to university, getting a good job, is an unspoken given. I doubt it's ever crossed my children's mind that they would do this everyone they've known of the right age all their lives has done this.
I've work over the years with very deprived families some can't even read and write, many abuse substances, have significant physical and mental health problems associated with grinding poverty and deprivation, housing problems again associated with grinding poverty, poor diets, poor employment prospects, zero hours contracts financial instability etc, they experience extreme prejudice from many government organisations promoted and encouraged by parts of our media who demonise them and multiple hurdles are deliberately put in their way to prevent them from even achievung the basics that most take for granted. They live in areas of high deprivation surrounded by others in the same shitty boat. These poor sods are struggling to exist and provide food for their children let alone read to them every night. University, is no more on their radar than quantum physics is on mine.
This inequality advantages/disadvantages some have has absolutely nothing to do with what type of school you go to these children were born into this situation. Some will achieve despite if this but the overwhelming research is that sadly children born into these types of homes stay there. And for what it's worth I don't see it getting any better. Frankly forget "the squeezed middle" it's those at the bottom of the pile we should be jumping up and down about.
I genuinely don't know the solution to this, My DH works for billionaires oligarchs etc he always says if Jo Public actually knew how much money these people have they're be a revolution.

And as the government is making A levels harder the numbers choosing STEM subjects (which were already amongst the hardest subjects) are going to decrease. Too many students are also being put off maths by the new GCSE.

Ah the same older forget about the middle( the majority) distraction. I'm not sure advocating fairness for all advocates forgetting about the poorest.

Sorry you can protest all you like but the fact remains however good your home life is,however well educated your mother is you will be squeezed out of top jobs by those privately educated.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35641061

Limplettuce what do you call rich? Presumably anybody earning more than you? Do you think so-called cultural capital including education and value placed on education requires high earning?

I think that a lot of MNetters went to eg Oxbridge to do non STEM subjects and so are very well educated and may be earning relatively little now( except for the lawyers). Unless they are dependent on somebody else's earnings they could not comfortably afford private school. Do they regret their education and cultural capital from studying humanities? I don't know.
It is a reality that some jobs attract less earnings for equivalent talent and education.

Sadly from my observations anyway, it is the way you speak and mannerisms and confidence.
Take a child with text speak, poor eye contact, and awkward manners, and they just will really struggle during an interview.
Accent isn't the issue but poor vocabulary and expression really put people to the back of the queue during interviews.
I see some great cvs and then just feel frustrated when a person cannot articulate well.
As a result you get wealthier people, many from privste schools from both here and abroad, doing well.

Limo for the mega wealthy (let's face it that's who we're talking about not Mr and Mrs MC scrimping and saving to send their kids to a good local independent day school) paying for schooling is the same as paying for a Ferrari or you fourth or fifth holiday home or your 10 bedroomed house in Chelsea. It's all part of the package of having money.
If you restrict them they'll go elsewhere in the world their horizons aren't limited by town city or country border maybe you think that's a good thing but I don't think it is. We need bright individuals and whether you like it or not many children in the independent sector are exceedingly bright innovative and hard working maybe we need their money too if we are to maintain our position on the world stage .
There are over 2 billion Asians/Indians bristling with ambition hoping and waiting to usurp us from our global position. I can tell you they're not wringing their hands over which school you went too or not or how wealthy your parents are.
I hate discrimination in any form a child from any background leaving with A/A*'s at A level should be allowed to apply to any university and be fairly considered along side others with same qualifications.

ILikeyourHairyHands Thu 06-Jul-17 18:28:48
A lot of independents don't do A levels either, not sure about Eton.

Obviously Eton does A levels or it wouldn't be in the rankings which is what this thread is all about.

Limp it appears that our government believes financial resources are limited therefore it's those at the bottom who should be a priority IMO they are in a poverty trap that they rarely get out of. The squeezed middle are struggling but nothing in comparison to those on the bottom.

I doubt very much that restricting the unfair advantages a private education gives would cost much.

Also making life more equal for the Middle would improve the lot of those truly struggling. Fat lot of good helping the poorest is if doors are then slammed in their faces once they pull themselves out of poverty.

The Tory strategy of helping a tiny few (whilst they keep the advantages that help them)to keep everybody quiet isn't working and more and more people are waking up to it.

Convince me that restring the unfair advantages of those who are privately educated will make any difference to the squeezed middle or those the bottom. We talking about 625,000 children across the whole age range of which I believe at least 10% of those are not UK citizens.
Are we talking all children, just those from certain schools, what about those with SEN? Or the super super bright who's needs are not always met in the state sector, or those who live in areas where there are no school places, or those who's families in the armed services who get help with boarding fees or other professions who get fees paid if their families work abroad? Or those who work full time need to take advantage of the longer school days often offered by the independent sector? Or those who think their state options are crap? There plenty of those on here.

Do you really think that a child from a very wealthy background having his "adavantages" confired on him by his school restricted will then be on a level playing field with a child from a squeezed middle family leaving a good state school? Are you really that naive? Are you really completely clueless about how it works if you've got huge wealth?

Limplettuce your proposals are just as much about self-interest as is a global economy which creates super rich people in certain sectors. We are basically all about giving our DCs the best chance whether that it is done predominantly at home or through the school we can choose.
I agree with Happy that for the very poor reaching the heights of the squeezed middle class is a distant dream.

Limplettuce how do you suggest restricting the advantages of the privately educated?

By restricting the percentage at university to the number actually educated in the independent sector! Because as we all know children in the independent sector are thick lazy good for nothings who've had all their achievement spoon fed to them by their schools so aren't worthy of going to a decent university.
Of course wealthy MC children at high achieving outstanding state schools be it grammar or comprehensive many of whom have parents who've had the foresight to move into catchment areas for these schools and or employ tutors havent had any unfair advantages confired on them. Or if they have they're harder to indenture and discriminate against and it might even cause a bit of a backlash amongst the hand wring squeezed middle.

I already did Dapple.

No Happy of course I don't.

I do however think there would be big benefits for the majority and more importantly a huge increase in fairness.

Identify not indenture!

Tiny classes, Oxbridge/ the best eeducated teachers,amazing resources,supported prep by the high educated,supported study techniques by the high educated, top contacts,confidence, a bump up to the top of the list for the best jobs.....

These are all things the best state schools don't and can't provide.

Better info re uni admissions and a fairer system they could.

The fact is kids from the best state schools are not getting the top jobs. That should tell you something.

I'm amazed that posters think the status quo in the link below is ok.

So you restrict the number at university what do you think these children will do? Go down the mines? Sweep the roads?
Of course not they'll go abroad or go straight into the very jobs you want opened to the "squeezed middle". They'll still get the leg up you hate probably even more so, anyone under attack will fight back and no one has the means and resources and let's not forget the ears of those with genuine influence more than the very wealthy.
We have a friend who's a senior partner at a FTSE 100 company increasingly their recruiting non graduates and training them themselves. Another friends is a senior partner in a magic circle law firm she goes to a dinner party meet a man who's a senior party at a big investment bank Goldmans etc she gives his son three weeks work experience, 2 years later he gives her non university educated DS a job.
And what about non U.K. Citizens at top British universities in this wonderful fair etopua you envisage will they still be allowed to apply? Many of them have been tutored and privately educated in this country and beyond. Shall we restrict their numbers as well? Or do we want the high fees they pay universities?