Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Should we make a decision based purely on OFSTEDs?

126 replies

NemosKnickers · 02/07/2017 12:30

My DS wants to go to the nearest comp (School A) which has been rated as 'requires Improvement' in 2016. This is because about 80% of his peers from school will also go there.

We applied for School B a bit further away which has an Outstanding Ofsted from 2009, but we didn't get in and so we'd accepted this and were going to make the most of School A.

However, I have now just heard that he has got a place from the waiting list for School B and I'm dreading telling him. He will be really devastated. He never wanted to go to School B.

I don't know anyone with kids at either school, I can't find any meaningful reviews online for either school and so I only have the Ofsteds and results to go off. School B gets better results across the different measurements.

I've looked at both school's websites and nothing is standing out to me as being obviously better than the other.

So, we have to just go with the school that's better on paper don't we?

Have I missed any other way of making this decision?

OP posts:
Anewcareerforme · 02/07/2017 13:00

Slightly different l know but I've done observation days in three ofstead inspected and deemed to be "outstanding" schools I was unimpressed with all of them lots bloody awful uninspiring teaching and loads of bored pupils. In contrast I've also done a couple of days in a school graded "good" which a few years ago was "requires improvement" I met brilliant happy staff and motivated pupils who talked highly of their teachers and school. I know which one I'd choose if I had secondary age children.

titchredge · 02/07/2017 13:02

My boy has just changed school (primary school). We had no choice but to accept it as no other schools have any places and his previous school was awful. New school has been unsatisfactory/requires improvement etc for several years so obviously I was devastated that we had no choice but to accept the place. Well the school is unbelievable. My so. Had taken 8 months off school ( this is how long it took to get him into new school) and started there with a reading age of 4-5, 4 months on and he is now reading above his age group (reading age 8-9 and he is 7)
His writing is so much better. His spelling has improved lots along with his maths etc. Never judge a school based on ofsted report

Original poster
NemosKnickers · 02/07/2017 13:02

Can you advise what would be a better measurement that A-C? I'm not really sure how to use the data.

OP posts:
runnerbean39 · 02/07/2017 13:03

Having worked in both a school in special measures and later a school that was outstanding, I would definitely have reservations about sending my child to a school that requires improvement. Especially if ofsted reports before 2016 were dodgy.

If previous reports have been good, there's a chance the school have just taken their eye off the ball and there might not be anything really wrong.

As a teacher I perhaps unsurprisingly detest Ofsted but I don't think their results are random. Occasionally they can enter a school with preconceived ideas but, generally speaking, my experience is that they always work out the true picture of the school.

When my school was put in special measures, leadership was the root problem and they put staff under immense pressure as a result. School morale fell massively, staff turnover increased and parents tried to get kids out of the school and into better ones. It might not be that bad for a school that requires improvement, but I'd certainly want to have a good look around during a working school day to make my mind up.

Bobbybobbins · 02/07/2017 13:04

Value added is a better measure than raw A*-C as it shows where the school has got the children to in relation to their starting points. So 58% raw in one school would be great but in another could be terrible, depending on their intake.

FellOutOfBed2wice · 02/07/2017 13:04

For what it's worth I work in (but am about to leave) an outstanding school that hasn't been inspected for five years. It's bad a change of head and i would say turn over of 70% of staff, results are down and it is a rotten place to work (and I suspect attend as a student). If it got inspected tomorrow I have no doubt it would be RI. So there's way more to the picture than just an 8 year old ofsted report. Tread carefully.

Original poster
NemosKnickers · 02/07/2017 13:05

DS is a higher achiever, confident and friendly. But we have to consider his younger siblings who may need more support.

OP posts:
RedSkyAtNight · 02/07/2017 13:08

Does transport mean that you will have to take your DC to school (so can't do 2 different school dropoffs)? Otherwise, you should be choosing this school for your oldest DC, not his siblings.

Original poster
NemosKnickers · 02/07/2017 13:10

Value added:
School A 1,007.8
School B 1,012.7

Can anyone help with what to make of these?

OP posts:
user1497480444 · 02/07/2017 13:10

go and visit the schools during the school day, and look at behaviour. That is the biggest indicator as to whether your child will learn well there, or not.

Original poster
NemosKnickers · 02/07/2017 13:11

School A is 5 minute walk
School B is a 10 minute bus or a 25 minute walk for DS

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 02/07/2017 13:11

OP I think the most powerful data is stuff like attendance and exclusions. results are often dictated by the area and the parenting, as much as the school (rightly or wrongly)

You need to visit both school again asap and tell them WHY you are visiting!!

Piggywaspushed · 02/07/2017 13:12

Those are both good VA scores.

Both schools results will probably decline this year with new GCSEs.

muckypup73 · 02/07/2017 13:14

To be fair I think Ofsted should be abolished, I worked in a school that got a good but it shoud have been poor, I worked in a school that got poor and it should have got good, mu sons school have always always been excellent and yet this year they only got a good. Oh and I worked in another school that got put into specail measures and yet they were excellent and very nurturing with the children, I am cynical that they want to turn all schools into being self funding and that way they do not have to fund them.

So no I would not make a decision based on Ofsted.

user1497480444 · 02/07/2017 13:14

Why is exclusions a reliable indicator for anything?

It tells you nothing about behaviour at all. In my experience what is an automatic exclusion in one school may be a humble request not to do it again in another. Are you saying a high rate of exclusions are good, because students are being disciplined, or bad because students are behaving badly?

In my opinion it wouldn't tell you either.

PerspicaciaTick · 02/07/2017 13:15

I'm not really hearing any concrete reasons for not allowing DS the final decision on which school he goes to.

Piggywaspushed · 02/07/2017 13:15

OP you should be able to find helpful info from Ofsted. Just looked up my own school and it has bar graphs showing its performance against other school and nationally and has Progress 8 sores which is a new measure. It's pretty easy to follow...

Original poster
NemosKnickers · 02/07/2017 13:16

exact same absence rates

very similar persistent absence rates and both in line with national averages

ARGH, this is HARD!

OP posts:
Original poster
NemosKnickers · 02/07/2017 13:18

thank you Piggy - and everyone - for your help! Much appreciated Flowers

I'll go and look for that now

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 02/07/2017 13:18

If they are so similar I'd go for the nearest one!

The outstanding one sounds like it might be declining.

Piggywaspushed · 02/07/2017 13:22

user a high or increased exclusion rate is always a trigger for Ofsted.

It is something that OP could ask school their policy on.

BertrandRussell · 02/07/2017 13:22

I'm a bit puzzled about why a school with VA like that would be requires improvement across the board.......have you looked at the performance of high middle and low attainers?

Piggywaspushed · 02/07/2017 13:24

It does seem odd Bertrand !

Piggywaspushed · 02/07/2017 13:24

Presumably they got Ofsteded before their 2016 results were published and didn't have robust data to prove they were on the up.

I'll be their 2015 results were poor.

NetflixandBill · 02/07/2017 13:26

Both good progress scores. Means that the children tend to make better than expected progress.

Wider factors such as how much your child likes the school, feels engaged in school life and the community, is supported by and has good relationships with the staff will be big determiners in how well they achieve. I'd worry that reluctance to attend school B would get him off on the wrong foot and prevent him from settling in properly.