When parents are slagging off the local comp...

[Everyoneafter3]

I've posted before about my concerns over the local secondary, which, thanks to comments on this board and an excellent recent Ofsted, are very much allayed. I had a very good read of school newsletters etc and am much happier. Dd1 (Y4) is musically gifted and will also audition for a specialist music school.

The area in which we live is very affluent: many children round here go to fee-paying independent schools. These dc are going to school and telling my dd (and others) that the local secondary is rubbish ("my mum and dad say..."). One particularly stupid parent has said at home that "no child of mind will set foot in x school" which of course is coming back home with our dd.

Dd1 has now got it into her head that the local school is terrible, that she's really upset to go to not a good school, that she wishes we weren't poor (we're not! But no, we can't afford independent school fees without having to sacrifice other stuff we prioritise as a family). She's been researching exam results and all sorts.

For our part we've said well look at any local school she'd like to, although as we live across the road from the school in question it'd be unlikely that she'd get in.

I'm heartily sick of parents telling their dc how awful the local school is. It's simply not fair. My dc won't receive a 'lesser' education. They aren't going to a 'rubbish' school. If this continues I'm tempted to speak to their current primary school tbh. What else can I do? I've told dd to not listen, we've looked at the school website, talked about results (!) but I'm at a loss.

Actually I do know the London schools up to a point, why wouldn't I?

You are quite rightly extremely proud of your children's academic record, goodbyestranger. But you do perhaps overextrapolate on occasion from your own situation to others about which you are not fully informed

Calender That is a very good track record by any standard.

Not entirely correct to make that assumption Bobo because I have wider ongoing experience of education than my own DCs', or my own (which is very out of date, obviously). You assume I'm extrapolating purely from my own DC, that's all.

Cheers cowgirls!

You extrapolate, incorrectly, on this very thread that people ask my advice about Oxbridge entrance and that if DC do not get Oxbridge offers, I have somehow failed. That is you projecting your ideals on the parents/students who ask me for help. But I have only very rarely helped an applicant who has their heart set on Oxbridge and who would view refusal of an offer in those terms. As I say, overextrapolation!

Sendsummer - there is 0 evidence that smaller class sizes (under 30) get better results.

However, many schools, not just Indies, have smaller classes A level. I am sure they are larger at HBS than NLCS, but it would be unusual to have 30 in a class.

Calendar - you can in no way you can evaluate if an 11 year old is an "original thinker" who is going to excel at Oxbridge. I mean come on! The kind of critical thinking skills you need at Oxbridge involve looking at A level & beyond information. An 11 year old having an original thought about the Christmas Carol is just not in the same ballpark.

Lots of very bright 11 year olds who will swan into Oxbridge for maths at 18, for example, will probably total clams in a private school interview at age 11, but luckily private schools also realise that a shy 11 year old isn't necessarily a stupid one.

Alyosha - at my DD's primary school (large, international, central Paris) there were DC in every year group (125 students) who were original thinkers. At 10/11 some DC are quite clearly outliers.

Sendsummer - classes A level 10 years ago in my Indie (and my friends;) were smaller versions of GCSE. Teacher led, didactic and some discussion, but mostly knowledge acquisition.

Oxbridge tutorials I believe (having not gone to oxbridge) are 1:1 or 1:2, with a huge amount of time spent on critical analysis of an individual student's work. That simply does not happen in most schools unless something has dramatically changed in the past 10 years, it could have done.

As you say I am basing my knowledge of London indy teaching on my experience some time ago...

Well I don't think that very niche extrapolation means that I'm extrapolating about general educational matters, or the current state of affairs in certain schools, or the character of entrance tests, or the folly (or otherwise) of grade 9s etc etc.

I'm not sure it's a bad ideal to prefer that DC don't seek help from unqualified individuals for Oxbridge entrance, but I'm obviously quirky that way!

Bobo - great - do the outlier 11 year olds always end up at the grandes ecoles?

Or are they being beaten by the rich kids with great experiences?

Stop extrapolating, goodbyestranger. You are so frigging obsessed with Oxbridge entrance that you cannot see that people seek advice in university entrance in a whole host of issues (many of which you do not face and in fact are not aware exist).

Some of the outliers are also rich kids. I guess we should all put money on those ones making the Grandes Ecoles.

Alyosha - they go all over the world to HE. Indeed, when DD left primary I gave the headmistress a coffee table book of the world's most beautiful universities so she could see where her pupils were headed

Alyosha grammars try to keep A level class sizes at 25 max. That's nevertheless quite a tall order for teachers in terms of marking etc. though as sendsummer says, there are many excellent teachers out there who go the extra mile. My own DC have benefited from some of them. The smaller groups in less popular subjects are currently at risk across all state schools, because of the funding situation.

Bobo where a thread is very specifically discussing Oxbridge/ grammars/ indies I'm not going to bang on about Warwick. My comment about your success rate was to do with Oxbridge because that is what this section of this thread is about, not Warwick, Bristol etc. I didn't introduce the subject, I joined in, and probably know a good deal more about it than you, very specifically grammars and Oxbridge which is what my responses are about.

No, goodbye, you have tried to point score in a very rude (and also entirely misplaced) way. You are clearly very upset that someone might ask my advice rather than yours as you clearly believe your skill set outstrips mine. However, you are failing to understand that people ask me questions which I have answers to but that you don't.

The smaller groups in less popular subjects are currently at risk across all state schools, because of the funding situation.

But there has to be a cut-off point. It's not sustainable to run a 2 year GCSE course for a handful of pupils. At my son's school, there are only 4 kids doing GCSE Spanish in year 10 for example. In year 11, there are just 6. As a result, they've removed it from the options list for current year 9s, so the current year 10 will be the last. Yes, it's a shame, and in a perfect world, with unlimited resources, it would be good to keep as an option, but in reality it's just a waste of money to have a teacher for 4/6 kids when you have 30+ in others.

Bobo, people ask me for help all the time but I think it appropriate to pass them on to my DC and/or to the Ho6 if they're students at our school, all of whom are very willing to help.

Obviously I miss out on handbags that way :(

I'm sure they do ask you, goodbye. As you are making abundantly clear, that is within your community, which is where your knowledge is relevant.

I wish I could think of a name for the phenomenon that means any thread about secondary education on Mumsnet becomes focused on high achievers within 50 posts or less..........

Or Hermes jewellery

Calendar - you can in no way you can evaluate if an 11 year old is an "original thinker" who is going to excel at Oxbridge. I mean come on! The kind of critical thinking skills you need at Oxbridge involve looking at A level & beyond information. An 11 year old having an original thought about the Christmas Carol is just not in the same ballpark.
Please point out where I said that 11+ was looking for Oxbridge skills. That'll require some creative thinking by you!

I don't know any families with 6+ children so I can see that Goodbyestranger's situation is indeed remarkable.

Well possibly my community yes, but that extends well beyond my locality and beach.