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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Bits of news on the grammar school issue

266 replies

HPFA · 07/04/2017 18:48

Two snippets of news

schoolsweek.co.uk/film-company-targets-grammar-teachers-in-recruitment-video/?utm_content=bufferb7668&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Unclear exactly why grammar teachers are being targeted to tempt people into teaching. Perhaps to tempt recruits by suggesting they can have a nice career only teaching the easy kids.

And another piece of news:

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-church-england-not-interested-opening-new-grammar-schools

This is perhaps hardly surprising. Since faith schools are already so heavily criticised for being socially exclusive it would hardly do the C of E's image much good to open up schools explicitly targeting the already advantaged. Still welcome news to those of us on the pro-comprehensive side.

OP posts:
ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 14/04/2017 16:40

Again, I come back to children doing things because they want to and are best at it, not because they'll be
:
a) higher paid

or because :
b) the country needs them to.

although I see your point of view.

Lots of engineering companies in Germany and lots of need worldwide to at least have a smattering of Spanish.. But hey ho.

This whole STEM thing can sound a bit draconian sometimes.

But, anyway, I can't square arguments about 'do STEM' because you'll be better paid' with 'do STEM because we need (not so brilliantly paid) radiographers and teachers'...

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 14/04/2017 16:42

So, *Usre8, should I have been forced to do maths at school then (interestingly the subject I would have sacrificed to make room would have been biology!)

btw there is a growing national shortage of English teachers, too....

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 14/04/2017 16:42

Sorry - user name fail User !

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 14/04/2017 16:45

It is a vicious circle though , you're right. One of the reasons my DS1 doesn't much like science is because he has never considered himself much use at it and that may well be down to poor teaching by not very well qualified /passionate teachers.

DS2s school, however, has a new head of science who is very 'passionate' but her elitism does my nut in somewhat.. the not quite so capable are being left behind. Result? DS2 doesn't like science much either...

Oh well! Grammar Schools will sort all that out ! Wink

DoctorDonnaNoble · 14/04/2017 17:11

Where are they going to find teachers for these new grammar schools when my own grammar is struggling to recruit.

Headofthehive55 · 14/04/2017 17:18

My DD2 hated her comp. she hated being taught in mixed ability classes. It made her feel rubbish. She's now gone to college and as most of the very academic ones go to sixth forms she is finding her confidence from being with people of similar ability.

Peregrina · 14/04/2017 18:23

Most comprehensives these days set for subjects. I did know teachers who actually preferred mixed ability teaching, and probably knew how to make it work, but on the whole it's gone out of fashion. Comprehensive does not equal mixed ability.

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 14/04/2017 18:31

I love mixed ability teaching but cant find a school to work in that offers it... oh, apart from my DH's selective school!!

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 14/04/2017 18:33

Where are they going to find teachers/ funding etc? It's al a mystery to me, too ...

If grammar schools can't recruit Doctor, how do the non grammars fare?

I ask because I noticed an 'upper school' (ie a secondary modern) in Bucks advertising a SLT post three times...

Headofthehive55 · 14/04/2017 18:35

Ours set for some but not all as its too small.

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 14/04/2017 18:40

To be fair , your DD didn't know any different : she blamed mixed ability but hadn't tried setting? I am inferring that she wasn't all that able? In which case she could have found setting rather distressing. I do.

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 14/04/2017 18:52

Posted this on another thread . I think you guys on this thread might take it in better spirit:

www.dur.ac.uk/research/news/thoughtleadership/?itemno=28879

HPFA · 14/04/2017 18:58

There is a report on recruitment in secondary moderns:

educationdatalab.org.uk/2016/06/inequalities-in-access-to-teachers-in-selective-schooling-areas/

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ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 14/04/2017 19:05

Thanks HPFA - confirms what I suspected.

Gee whizz, this government could create such a mess.

Headofthehive55 · 14/04/2017 20:04

No she not able. She liked setting actually as it put her with pupils of similar ability.
A bit like me with sports / fitness classes. Puts me off when they are full of those more able. So I don't go. Now. If they had classes for unfit unable sports wise I'd be in!

Peregrina · 14/04/2017 20:20

A bit like me with sports / fitness classes.

Smile. Me too, I sorely wished they had set for PE. It's no fun being shown up by the sporty ones, and from their point of view, having the team let down by people like I was. I believe that some schools do set now, in terms of do you want to take the sport seriously, or is it just to get a bit of exercise?

noblegiraffe · 14/04/2017 22:28

The NUT are going to legally challenge the government over schools using advertised grammar streams to get around rules against grammars.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39589911

The most interesting bit of the article:

"The Department for Education says that multi-academy trusts can already stream by ability across their schools, with these ability groups being taught at different sites - and the consultation on grammars will not affect this.
A department spokeswoman said: "Streaming pupils by ability is, and has always been, allowed at all schools, and helps teachers give every child an appropriately stretching education.
"Multi-academy trusts have always been able to pool their resources to deliver these benefits on a larger scale and across different sites within the trust, and we want to see more do this.""

HPFA · 15/04/2017 06:55

Noble

The TES has a slightly different take

twitter.com/tes/status/852916894181052419

Use of the word "part-time" seems interesting. Possible for a MAT to do something as innocuous as special week long workshops for most able pupils in different subjects? Probably most of us wouldn't have strong objections to this.

OP posts:
Headofthehive55 · 15/04/2017 08:07

This is an extension of setting and good I would have thought. Let's hope they extend it to PE!

bojorojo · 15/04/2017 10:12

It is extended to PE. Schools usually have school teams. Those who are not good at sport are not selected for the teams. No-one has ever batted an eye about this form of selection! It is usually a win, win, win attitude and the poor performers are excluded.

Just one correction from an earlier post: It is Structural Engineers who design bridges. This is a branch of Civil Engineering but requires a further qualification. Yes, there are shortages in all sorts of STEM posts.

You cannot, however, make a linguist do STEM A levels. It is simply not possible for everyone to do STEM to a high level and there are plenty doing these subjects already who are second rate. My husband has employed a few who cannot cut it in the workplace, but have all the qualifications. They have no business acumen however and make basic mistakes so they are a considerable cost to the company, even after extensive training.

There is a need for people to understand different cultures and bring a mix of experiences to the workplace. Speaking another language is only part of a linguist's skill set. They have lots of other skills too and these should not be overlooked by any progressive country.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 15/04/2017 10:19

Beans - I'm not sure. We are fortunate to have the SCITT programme here and often that supplies the new teachers. My HoD is a little, well, snobbish, about academic backgrounds so is complicating matters for us. Maths struggles to find people to do Further Maths. However, other than core subjects we generally do alright.

Traalaa · 15/04/2017 10:25

Headofthehive55, my son's comp sets for PE. Those into it/ competitive get to be in set 1.

cantkeepawayforever · 15/04/2017 10:43

Local comp sets from PE - for most lessons, at least, though some such as fitness are not set - from very early on, much earlier than for anything else except Maths!

BertrandRussell · 15/04/2017 11:12

"This is an extension of setting and good I would have thought"

No it isn't. It's an extension of streaming and backdoor selection.

noblegiraffe · 15/04/2017 11:23

HPFA The full quote from the DfE is "form a cohort that can be educated on a part-time basis at different sites, provided the pupils remain registered to their original school and receive some of their education there"."

So that could count pupils who are mostly educated at a different site and then have a week long seminar at the original school.

Does anyone know how this situation of bussing pupils with special needs to a different school was resolved? It looks like the DfE thinks it's fine.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fury-over-plans-bus-special-11409825