Bits of news on the grammar school issue

[HPFA]

Two snippets of news

schoolsweek.co.uk/film-company-targets-grammar-teachers-in-recruitment-video/?utm_content=bufferb7668&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Unclear exactly why grammar teachers are being targeted to tempt people into teaching. Perhaps to tempt recruits by suggesting they can have a nice career only teaching the easy kids.

And another piece of news:

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-church-england-not-interested-opening-new-grammar-schools

This is perhaps hardly surprising. Since faith schools are already so heavily criticised for being socially exclusive it would hardly do the C of E's image much good to open up schools explicitly targeting the already advantaged. Still welcome news to those of us on the pro-comprehensive side.

[BasiliskStare]

I can't understand why some people wouldn't want to take maths A-level wink

Well yes but , and User ....615 and others, - yes I absolutely get why you want more Maths etc 6th form students, But - albeit " too many gradates do History (sic) " but if that one student wants to do e.g. History - and that is the right thing for them - should they do Maths etc because it is a more for the "good of the general" thing? DS is competent but not talented at Maths.

[HPFA]

Wonderful Twitter debate on grammars here:

twitter.com/i/moments/853997076560130049

First time Toby Young has been accused of not being a Conservative. And fair play to Peter Hitchens for not using the "Where did you go to School?" line. But it appears that because comp children are doing well in exams the exams must be changed to show grammar superiority. And one third of the children who don't pass will be technical schools, one third in the dumping ground. So if you failed the exam because you were great at English but not Maths you're basically screwed. Not if you're reasonably off, your child will be intensively tutored in maths, but certainly if you're poor.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Thanks for this link. Fascinating political siding (?) going on here!

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

Oh how I hate Toby Young!
I keep coming back to the fact that actually nobody asked for this. It wasn't in the manifesto and the Tories have been anti-new grammars for a long time (it's not actually a vote winning policy).
Personally, I would like to see super selectives throughout the country but if that's not what those places want then it shouldn't be forced on them.
(Of course I would say that I went to one and have taught in two, didn't know that's what they were until MN though!).
It is quite ludicrous to spend money on a non-manifesto policy in an area where the schools in existence are desperate for funds!

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

All of Hitchens' arguments are so spurious, I 'm amazed Birbalsingh kept going , to be honest!

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Donna - but Cameron is now pretending he agrees and that he thought this all along... which annoyed me more than I thought it would.

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

What? That's really annoying he specifically said no more grammars!

[noblegiraffe]

Toby Young wrote an article recently saying that partially selective schools (by academic ability, not like by music as his WLFS) were the way forward. It looks like he has abandoned that since the evidence was shown that partially selective schools do worse by their students.

Peter Hitchens will always be known as the lesser Hitchens, which must grate.

[noblegiraffe]

Tories have been anti-new grammars for a long time

The party officially haven't, but it has been rumbling in the back benches since they disappeared. This has been thrown out to appease them in the same way that the referendum was thrown out to appease potential UKIP voters - to keep the party and a particular section of voters onside.

[HPFA]

Personally, I would like to see super selectives throughout the country but if that's not what those places want then it shouldn't be forced on them.

One or two superselectives in each county wouldn't particularly bother me either if only I could be sure it wouldn't be a Trojan horse.

All of Hitchens' arguments are so spurious, I 'm amazed Birbalsingh kept going , to be honest!

I specifically avoided referring to Hitchens's argument as being the "pro-grammar case" since it seemed insulting to rational grammar supporters. He doesn't help his case with ludicrous over-statements like this one:

twitter.com/mikercameron/status/854095152125816836

[BertrandRussell]

I can understand the argument for super selectives. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it. It mKes sense. For "ordinary" grammar schools? I just don't think there is an argument for them. Well, apart from unenlightened self interest. And that's perfectly understandable too.

[noblegiraffe]

General Election. They'll win on Brexit and pretend they won on grammar schools.

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

Another bloody waste of money!

[Clavinova]

Actually I found one of Peter Hitchen's tweets quite informative;
I was previously unaware that the Education Policy Institute was a former liberal think tank. Doesn't that make it difficult for them to remain politically impartial especially if current trustees are Liberal Democrat members and the Institute receives charitable donations from a trust associated with a comprehensive Academy Trust?en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Policy_Institute

[HPFA]

Clavinova I know we don't agree on much but surely we can both accept that saying the entire exam system has to be changed just so the superiority of grammars over comprehensives can be shown is far beyond the bounds of any rational pro-grammar argument.

And if he doesn't like the EPI's stats he really needs to tell us why they're wrong.

[Clavinova]

noble
"Toby Young wrote an article recently saying that partially selective schools (by academic ability, not like by music as his WLFS) were the way forward. It looks like he has abandoned that since the evidence was shown that partially selective schools do worse by their students."

What evidence are you referring to that shows that partially selective schools (by academic ability selection) do worse by their students?

The recent 'evidence' published in March here;
www.nfer.ac.uk/publications/GRAM02/
seems to lump these partially selective schools together (academic and other abilities).
8 of the 38 schools chosen in the study do not select by academic ability and a number of the schools are in fully selective areas such as Kent - these 'partially selective' schools are 'selecting' pupils by academic ability who have already 'failed' the 11 plus in their area (so not even in the top 28% of ability for the area). The study also states that 2 of the schools have been excluded from the results because the percentage of high achievers at those schools is too high (presumably these schools are Watford Grammar School for Girls/Boys?) How can these schools be excluded from a study on partially selective schools because they have too many high attaining pupils and yet be included in a list of the top comprehensive schools in other studies??

[noblegiraffe]

You'll have to ask Toby Young why he didn't mention any of that while praising the comprehensive ideal instead of partially selective schools.

[flyingwithwings]

If we get a Conservative majority of 140-160 i can look forward to 400 new grammar schools being created......


Only joking.......................

[flyingwithwings]

Truthfully i bet we end up with no more than 10-15 new grammar schools ...

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Not even that many, I reckon.

[HPFA]

There won't be the money to set up loads of brand new ones. However once you set up a few existing comps may join a rat race to convert and grab the top pupils before anyone else does.

I suppose it could be amusing if we do end up with Peter Hitchens' desired 35% grammars. In 10 years time Mumsnet will be full of people complaining that the local grammar can't really stretch the more able child.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

There will always be people who think the more able are the most disadvantaged in society...

[noblegiraffe]

There will always be people who think that they themselves are the most hard done-by in any scenario.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Well, that will certainly become apparent over the next six weeks....

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Interesting story btw...

My school applied. along with about 100 others across two phases, for Teaching School status. Should have found out in March. Email in March saying it would be Easter. Email last week, saying it had all gone into 'purdah' (their genuine, non ironic word!) because of 'upcoming local elections'. Really!? Local elections, my arse.

I think someone tipped them the wink that they might need to wait until after June...