Bits of news on the grammar school issue

[HPFA]

Two snippets of news

schoolsweek.co.uk/film-company-targets-grammar-teachers-in-recruitment-video/?utm_content=bufferb7668&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Unclear exactly why grammar teachers are being targeted to tempt people into teaching. Perhaps to tempt recruits by suggesting they can have a nice career only teaching the easy kids.

And another piece of news:

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-church-england-not-interested-opening-new-grammar-schools

This is perhaps hardly surprising. Since faith schools are already so heavily criticised for being socially exclusive it would hardly do the C of E's image much good to open up schools explicitly targeting the already advantaged. Still welcome news to those of us on the pro-comprehensive side.

[noblegiraffe]

I remember when I was younger thinking that the people who ran the country must be really clever

[BertrandRussell]

The problem is that there used to be clever civil servants to do the actual running the country bit.......

[BertrandRussell]

The creeping politicisation and dumbing down was beginning when I left 20 years ago. It's complete now.

[Anon1234567890]

Maybe we need to improve maths education and make maths exams harder so we can actually tell who is good at maths.

[noblegiraffe]

It's a bit hard to improve maths education when you can't get people with maths qualifications to train to be maths teachers, and those who are already teaching are quitting in record numbers.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

The maths exam has just been made so hard, all projections suggest that the numbers taking maths A level next year will fall drastically...

Because that will help...

[Peregrina]

Maybe with the increasing take up of students doing STEM subjects at A Level, it may eventually feed through into teaching? Those reading Maths at university may not come out with firsts and 2:1s so be lured away by the City, but surely, someone with a 2:2 entering teaching must be better than someone who stopped Maths after O level? Yes, I have personal knowledge of one school where that was the case.

[noblegiraffe]

If you've got a 2:2 in a maths-related degree they'll throw £25k at you if you just do a PGCE in maths, with no obligation to actually become a teacher.

[Peregrina]

with no obligation to actually become a teacher.

This is not right!. Personally I don't have a problem with there being a requirement to work a couple of years in a particular job if you have trained for it.

[PiqueABoo]

ll projections suggest that the numbers taking maths A level next year will fall drastically...

Before we launch the lifeboats what do the projections say about children successfully completing it?

Successful=getting to the end with a result that upstream life won't dismiss.

Don't know, but it's conceivable that this is doing some children a favour i.e. putting them off doing something that wasn't for them and would have wasted some significant time that could have been better spent eslewhere.

[noblegiraffe]

what do the projections say about children successfully completing it?

No one knows, first teaching of the new linear syllabus starts in September.

[PiqueABoo]

Fair point. I suspect you know what I meant though. I'll restate it with completely made-up little numbers:

If 1000 children started maths A-levels after oldGCSE every year but only 500 completed it 'sucessfully', then what does a future projection where 250 are deterred by nuGCSE and only 750 start maths A-level really imply?

Which children are we supposed to be losing? Are they largely the one's who would been lost via the previous attrition or is this deterring a significant proportion of credible contenders?

[noblegiraffe]

Lots who wouldn't have been successful completers previously would often at least complete AS and come away with a post-16 maths qualification. This is obviously a better situation mathematically than having those people not even start the course.

[Peregrina]

I think this is a useful debate. A friend's daughter struggled with Maths A level, and eventually managed a D. But this in itself means that she had much more knowledge than she would have done if she had stopped at GCSE.

It reminds me of the Perishers' cartoon which was in the Daily Mirror, with a sad Indian bloodhound, B. H. (Calcutta) failed. But going to University and learning something is probably better than learning nothing. Or is it? Is something half learnt worse than no knowledge?

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I wish I could find a link to the article - which also projects numbers to take A level English lit to fall - but it was in The Times.

Various associations to do with maths education are genuinely concerned about this, because they think perfectly capable mathematicians are being put off (and haven't enjoyed their GCSE maths experience at all). This is coupled with the fact that quite a lot of (non grammar, non selective) schools are dropping further maths A level - and MFL. Anecdotally, it s certainly true at my school that the uptake for English lit has dropped.

Just one snapshot really.

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

Eng Lit uptake has also dropped at my school. We'll know things have got really bad when Maths uptake drops at my school. It's our most popular a Level

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Personally, I can never understand why so many students want to take A level maths ! But I guess that does illustrate that various initiatives and policies over the years have worked... and it all looks set to have been a waste of time...

[noblegiraffe]

I can't understand why some people wouldn't want to take maths A-level

Maths A-level is the only subject which has been shown to be associated with an increase in future earnings.

There has been a lot of research that has shown consistently that more people need to take more maths post-16 than currently do. We're one of only a few countries where maths post-16 isn't compulsory. The Smith Report into compulsory post-16 maths provision that was supposed to be released in December has apparently disappeared, along with the responses to the Ebacc consultation which are now over a year overdue.

[Peregrina]

I recall you talking some time ago noble about various initiatives to enhance the mathematical education on offer. There was something about a double award, which would be seen as a better preparation for A level, and another course in 'functional maths' for those who needed mathematical competence, (which is most people) but weren't going to study maths at a higher level. They seemed like sensible proposals. What happened to them?

I despair always - it's acceptable for people to say they were or are no good at maths. They wouldn't dream of saying that they found reading difficult.

[noblegiraffe]

They seemed like sensible proposals. What happened to them?

Michael Gove and the total reform of the whole GCSE system.

The double maths linked pair GCSE (one in more functional maths and one in more pure maths) was piloted for a few years (hey Gove, did you know you can pilot new GCSEs to see if they work before rolling them out across the nation?) but the initiative was started by Labour which was probably the kiss of death for it.

It was agreed that there was enough content in maths GCSE for about two GCSEs, but instead of making it two GCSEs they just said it would be double-weighted in the league tables

[cantkeepawayforever]

As I have said before, DS - Level 6 at the end of primary, in a school where SATs were extremely low key so no specific training for that, progressed through to the second level of the Maths Challenge this year with a high Gold into the Kangaroo, always been a good mathematician - has decided not to do Maths A-level on the basis that his mocks were graded very low and he felt that he would do better in other subjects.

[noblegiraffe]

Talk him around, can't! That's ridiculous!

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Ah Noble - that's because I am motivated by higher things than future earnings!

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

... and I am not sure how motivating things by future earnings means we'll recruit more into maths teaching, if they only did their A level in maths so they could be a banker...?

I've always thought the earnings thing recruits the wrong kind of student.

[noblegiraffe]

Lots of students are now motivated by future earnings (and sensibly so!). If they're going to fork out thousands for uni they want a good job at the end. Lots of bright kids are also choosing apprenticeships over uni post-A-level, especially for things like engineering or accountancy.

I did see a blog post about recruiting A-level students for woolier subjects against this backdrop, competing against more lucrative subjects, but I can't remember what it said!