Tories shit all over the comprehensive system with a return to the 1950s and a nationwide 11+

[noblegiraffe]

That nice comp down the road that you had your eye on for your kid currently in primary?

BAM, now it's got an entrance exam and your kid is going to be bussed out to a secondary modern. We're staring down the barrel of a return to the two tier system across England.

Word on the street is that Theresa May, because she is a total fucking thoughtless idiot who doesn't have a clue about education and couldn't be arsed to read the Green Paper consultation responses from people who do, has kept in the imminent White Paper on grammar schools the option for current comprehensives to convert to grammar schools.

Heads will be preparing their applications to convert as we speak, because no school wants to miss the boat and become the secondary modern of the area.

Everyone with kids in primary should be very worried about this. Even if you think your kid should have a good shot at getting into the grammar, the test is unreliable.

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/government-set-allow-existing-schools-convert-grammar-status-white

No it's not Wellington - congratulations to that school. I was struck by this when looking at the D of E tables for Trafford.

Trafford does seem to make more effort than Bucks when it comes to its secondary moderns - Bucks complacency about them is pretty awful.

There were always 'good' Secondary Moderns in the old days i.e. the 1960s, so it's not surprising now that there can be pockets of excellence among Sec Mods.

Similarly, there were many mediocre grammar schools at the time, (like mine and there were no campaigns to save it - no one much lamented its passing.)

No it's not Wellington, lovely school though that is (many friends have kids there) and although the GCSE results for DDs school are impressive given the "top" (i.e. Tutored) students have been creamed off, Progress 8 isn't about GCSE grades it's progress from the end of KS 2 to K S 4. Not perfect but a much fairer way of measuring the school's performance especially in an area such as ours.

I'm actually struggling to think of a local Secondary modern that I would not want to send my kids to. Don't believe the hype, some of the grammars round here are a bit "fur coat and no knickers" and rely on parents wanting the kudos of sending their kids to a grammar.

I work in a local secondary school too so have a bit of "inside knowledge" in addition to being a parent.

Strumpet Lovely to see a school getting the credit it deserves. It can be hard in such a passionate debate to emphasise that those of us against selection are against the SYSTEM - we don't hate individual secondary moderns or indeed individual grammars.

One governor of a Trafford secondary modern says "500+ secondary moderns are doing a great job despite 11+ selection" That's a nice way of putting it.

If it does go ahead there will be a huge backlash when middle class parents find that their very bright child gets a secondary modern! That is why we went over to comprehensives- the 11+ was so unpopular. In 50s and 60s a lot of middle class parents sent their 'failures' to a private school but this has become less affordable.
My town has one very good comprehensive - I can't see why 75% would want it to change to a sec mod!
Maybe parents don't realise how many siblings were split, either side of the 11+ divide. Being of an age where we all took the 11+ I know more families that had siblings in either side than all at one type of school.

How close are schools to each other in other places that kicking 800 kids out of one school and making them go to a different one wouldn't be a logistical problem? Surely many more would need to get busses than currently? I mentioned the environmental impact before which people seemed to just shrug at, but there will also be an impact on children's health and obesity levels if they all get much less exercise.

The 800 kids that would be gone from my school aren't rich kids from half million pound houses either.

An excellent programme on the system here and very true- I am old enough to have gone through it. The irritating part of the programme is the man telling an 11yr old that she didn't fail because the system provided her with the right school for her!!

People who make policies are only too happy to have a system for 'other people's children' that is not good enough for their own!
If a school is not good enough for your own child it certainly isn't good enough for anyone else's child!

Theresa May was laying into Jeremy Corbyn for using grammar schools and then pulling up the ladder - ironic when she wants to keep at least 75% off the bottom rung of the ladder she wants to provide!

The ridiculous thing is that one Tory MP has already tweeted that grammars are fine but of course not needed in her constituency, in true Nimby fashion.

I imagine at the moment Theresa's minions are already assuring MPs in well-off constituencies that there will be protections in place to stop naice comprehensives turning into secondary moderns. So we have the utterly absurd situation that we are told we have to have grammars because they are so popular but to get the legislation through MPs will be assured that they don't have to have one of these amazingly popular things in their constituencies. It's a piece of Trumpism that might even explode the orange one's head.

Of course it's standard Tory policy that well-off areas will be protected from a dire policy that less well-off areas will be forced to put up with.

Noble many many kids are bussed into comps. There are fleets that come into our town,so many the comps stagger the times. The journey to the grammars are pretty similar just in a different direction. Buses don't pick kids up from their houses so many walk to get said bus. My DC do more walking now at secondary than they did at primary. We don't all live in cities or London with schools aplenty to walk to.

Just out of interest given how worried you are re the rich holding onto house prices in the best school areas what are you suggesting and pushing the gov to do in order to get round the wealthy buying school places via property and the huge unfairness and inequalities in many of our comps? Obviously without the use of buses. Keeping poorer families contained in poorer areas and the rich in the richer areas doesn't really push for a social mix. Obviously many less well off families can't afford to live in the wealthier areas.

I live in a grammar area. The parents are already tutoring from year 3 to pass the exam. This gets ramped up to epic levels and coaching camps in the summer before the exam

It makes me so sad. My eldest is friends with the ones likely to go to grammar, my eldest is clever and really really pushes himself to be as good as his friends and i am really really worried they won't get in to actually the school that would be best fit. Purely because he's not been tutored to get in.

Ginger Our "leafy" comp is in a posh village with high house prices but the school intake also includes children from rural council houses and traveller children.

noble
Here children are bussed, so your siblings would just go to different bus stops at the relevant times.

They have been threatening to stop those busses and yes they are completely opposite directions

Here is a breakdown of all Trafford's Modern Schools.

                                  pupils  GCSE %   FSM % last 6 years

Ashton On Mersey 1438 65% 21.4%
Altrincham Arts 950 51% 27%

BTH Catholic 1146 74% 18%
Broadoak 334 65% 60%
Flixton Girls 814 68% 20.5%
'Lostock' 312 32% 44.9%
St Antony's 507 43.6% 44.6%
Sale High 586 59% 40.1%
Wellacre (Boys) 749 48.2% 24.2%
Wellington 1398 74% 11.7%

GreenGinger2 - There are fleets that come into our town,so many the comps stagger the times. The journey to the grammars are pretty similar just in a different direction.

If the Grammar Schools didn't exist, would this still be happening on such a large scale?

Why would Trafford want to change anything about their education system !

The only school that looks a bit 'iffy' is Lostock but with 300 pupils it is obviously struggling !

Broadoak shows how good management and strategic decisions can do. They have managed to transform a school the 'doomsayers' on here would represent the archetypal interpretation of a Modern school.

Grammars don't exist in my area which is why a lot of kids who go to my school don't need a bus (obviously some still do). Creating a grammar would displace a lot of local kids which isn't a good thing.

I don't work in a city, Ginger.

Yes. Only 1 bus for the grammar. Masses for 2 comps. We are in catchment for one comp but when population numbers dip loads get their kids into the preferred alternative comp and pay for the bus.All kids would be going on a bus regardless of where it went. Journey times and costs similar. All are packed and you're just greatful to get a seat,have to apply early for all.

If everyone gets on a bus to go to school then why have they put schools out in the middle of fields with no houses around them?

Average GCSE pass rate including Eng/Maths of Trafford's Modern pupils 2016 60.9% !

1846 pupils took GCSEs last year at their 'Modern Schools' !

In many areas children live in villages,hamlets,suburbs and towns without a secondary school. Did you seriously not know this?

Yes green but the point is that the school isn't usually totally isolated and at least some local kids can walk there.

Our schools catchments are huge.
They are both 30-40 minute drive away. So, a few villages away, we are as far out as they come, but that would mean that potentially my kids would be going to school with children who live over an hour away from me. IYSWIM

Of course the local kids can walk there, but the majority of children are bussed in from the surrounding areas.

I do agree i love the idea of local secondary schools. Especially as this means the secondary are huge to accommodate. The kids go from small infants to massive secondaries. It must be very daunting.

Why would Trafford want to change anything about their education system

Here is a breakdown of the number of disadvantaged DCs in Trafford's Modern Schools and Grammar Schools

Stretford High School - 77
Ashton On Mersey - 59
St Antony's Catholic College - 44
Altrincham College of Arts - 43
Sale High School - 39
Blessed Thomas Holford Catholic College - 37
Broadoak School - 35
Wellacre Technology Academy - 29
Lostock College - 26
Flixton Girls School - 25
Wellington School - 19

Stretford Grammar School - 25
Sale Grammar School - 9
Urmston Grammar Academy - 6
Altrincham Grammar School for Girls - 5
Loreto Grammar School - 4

flyingwithwings can I suggest you take a look at the progress 8 for each of these schools.