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Grammar schools proposal so appalling that a cross-party alliance forms to fight them

801 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/03/2017 12:13

Former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg (Lib Dem), former Education Secretary Nicky Morgan (Conservative) and former Shadow Education Secretary Lucy Powell (Labour) have written a joint piece for The Observer condemning the plans by Theresa May to open new selective schools.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/19/help-poorer-pupils-selection-social-mobility-education-brexit-grammar-schools

"The formation of their cross-party alliance against grammar school expansion, which is opposed by about 30 Tory MPs, spells yet more political trouble for May on the domestic front. Last week, chancellor Philip Hammond was forced by a revolt in his own party into a humiliating budget U-turn over national insurance rises for the self-employed, and Conservatives lined up to oppose planned cuts in school funding.

Launching their combined assault, and plans to work together over coming months, in an article in the Observer, Morgan, Powell and Clegg say the biggest challenges for a country facing Brexit, digitisation and changes to the nature of work, are to boost skills, narrow the attainment gap between disadvantaged children and their peers and boost social mobility. By picking a fight over plans to expand selection in schools, May will, they argue, sow division, divert resources away from where they are needed most and harm the causes she claims to be committed to advancing.

Before a debate in the Commons on social mobility this week, the three MPs say it is time to put aside political differences and fight instead for what is right. “We must rise to the challenge with a new national mission to boost education and social mobility for all,” they write. “That’s why we are putting aside what we disagree on, to come together and to build a cross-party consensus in favour of what works for our children – not what sounds good to politicians.”

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/mar/18/cross-party-alliance-grammar-schools-theresa-may

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 26/03/2017 13:19

PP funding is supposed to be spent on the children themselves

Not necessarily. PP money can be spent on stuff that benefits other children too, so long as it also benefits PP children. So it could be used to hire a teaching assistant who works with small groups of children including, but not exclusively PP kids, for example.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 26/03/2017 13:31

"Noblegiraffe, I did not know that. I am sure the middle class will not gain those places. There's a multitude of ways to kick them in the balls, and hamper nay aspirations they have for their kids."

Oh yes, the poor oppressed middle classes. Who will speak out for the Boden wearers???

portico · 26/03/2017 13:41

BertrandRussell. It's true the middle classes are the whipping boys. Government and two faced liberals will do anything to thwart their advancement. How dare the MC aspire for their children. Oh yes, anyone who cares is sharp-elbowed. I feel feint. Must go to John Lewis, after I stop off at a Costa for my skint latte.

portico · 26/03/2017 13:43

Skinny latte

BertrandRussell · 26/03/2017 13:44

"BertrandRussell. It's true the middle classes are the whipping boys. Government and two faced liberals will do anything to thwart their advancement."

Working well, isn't it!

GreenGinger2 · 26/03/2017 13:59

Bertrand do you honestly think all the middle classes have an income that affords Boden?Hmm

For somebody that is so disparaging about this huge majority bracket you seem very ill informed re the realities of life for many within it.

HPFA · 26/03/2017 14:01

The figure is from an anti-selection group, however given the regularity with which it is quoted in the national press I would imagine it would have been challenged by Bucks CC by now if it was not accurate. You are correct that it is 2014.

In 2014, of the 276 children on free school meals who sat the new 11-plus test, just 10 passed – a shockingly low pass rate of 4% compared to the average that year of 30%. Or to put it another way, a child from a private school was over thirteen times more likely to pass the new ‘tutor proof’ test than a child on free school meals.
(After 2014, the grammar schools in Bucks decided to stop collecting data on pass rates for children on FSM.)

noblegiraffe · 26/03/2017 14:05

decided to stop collecting data on pass rates for children on FSM.

Shock Did they say why?

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 26/03/2017 14:15

"For somebody that is so disparaging about this huge majority bracket you seem very ill informed re the realities of life for many within it."

I''m not disparaging about the middle classes. I am pretty disparaging about members of the middle classes who think of them as an oppressed group.

And Boden indicates a mind set not an income bracket. I am always very careful to detach "privilege" and "income" in this context.

PiqueABoo · 26/03/2017 14:35

roundaboutthetown

Re. virtual classrooms, or in my quick win world I'll call them Virtual Kolmogrov Classrooms, the right kind of technology is starting to fall into place now. It could be a Google or some other org., but I noticed Microsoft gave education their Office365 'Teams' product for free last week and that is all about collaborative working with all the integrated videoing, messaging etc.

Pull a finger out and get what you're going to teach them sorted out, perhaps get Mark McCourt on that case. Get a pile of tech and good teachers with ring-fenced research/dev time in some 'Centre' for this (where said teachers can afford and might want to live and it doesn't have to be mainland England). Round up bunches of children with the same timetable slots and just get on with it.

In-class differentiation doesn't work and I don't blame the maths teachers who generally do what they can. But what happens here is teacher teaches to the middle (which does have that bias towards the bottom courtesy of the shape of the curve), if they're lucky the two whizzy ones have some extra photocopied worksheet to fill some of the significant spare time after whizzing through the one rest-of-class might not finish. On a very good day that sheet might be something else e.g. UKMT-stuff. But they very rarely get any attention, because that inevitably goes to children who are struggling to grasp topics they think are pipsqueak. And thought were pipsqueak when they did them last year. In some cases when they did them back in primary.

No one needs significant outliers in that classroom. They're not benefiting anyone, in fact they're probably depressing the self-efficiacy and thus performance of other kids.

HPFA · 26/03/2017 14:38

Not as far as I know. I think you would find some of the information here very interesting

democracy.buckscc.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=31715

especially the bit about 40% of South Bucks children being in independent schools against 7% nationally.

noblegiraffe · 26/03/2017 14:47

Virtual Kolmogrov Classrooms

I heard the head of the NCETM speaking in September and he thinks that this is the way maths teaching is going to go, not because of bright outlier kids who need special education, but because there are so few maths teachers. He thinks that maths lessons will be taught by Skype or whatever for students across the ability range - this will most likely affect middle and lower attainers whose schools can't attract maths teachers of their own.

Mark McCourt on the other hand is devoting his time to creating comprehensive maths teaching materials so that teachers who aren't trained in maths can deliver effective lessons as they are handed to them on a plate. His Complete Maths is expensive though.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 26/03/2017 14:50

The further maths support network also already do online lessons and tuition centres for kids whose schools don't offer further maths.

OP posts:
portico · 26/03/2017 14:53

Sorry to go off topic, but need to ask a question about the new gcse9-1 maths, Ed Excel if possible. How hard is maths GCSE, and is it easeier or harder than maths o levels of the early 80s

Peonyfan · 26/03/2017 15:01

There also seems to be a belief that some grammar schools let pp children in on a much lower pass mark

My ds is at a Kent SS, there is indeed a lower entry mark for pupils on PP.

Peonyfan · 26/03/2017 15:07

Another school near to me

Tunbridge Wells Grammar School for Boys was already the most inclusive selective local authority school in West Kent, achieving the national average of 6.9 per cent of pupils on FSM in 2015

flyingwithwings · 26/03/2017 15:13

6.9% FSM is not and never has been national average !

flyingwithwings · 26/03/2017 15:16

Peony. What the hell has gone on at Simon Langton Girls Grammar !

For those i don't know it seems the head was 'anti' selection and had tried to join forces with a low performing school in an academy.

Loads of excellent teachers left after bullying and finally about two weeks ago the head resigned !

GreenGinger2 · 26/03/2017 15:25

You inferred all middle classes could afford Boden.

Do they always regard themselves an oppressed group,where has that been illustrated?

What exactly do you classify as the middle classes?

Clavinova · 26/03/2017 15:31

flyingwithwings
Canterbury is at least 40 miles from Tunbridge Wells.
Lots on this blog though;
www.kentadvice.co.uk/peters-blog/news-a-comments/item/966-simon-langton-girls-grammar-school-headteacher-resigns-following-kcc-investigation.html

flyingwithwings · 26/03/2017 15:41

I know that, i was just wondering !

Also i did not know you lived near Tunbridge Wells !

Clavinova · 26/03/2017 15:52

Also i did not know you lived near Tunbridge Wells !
I did - for several years pre kids.

BertrandRussell · 26/03/2017 16:09

"You inferred all middle classes could afford Boden"
As I said- Boden indicates a mindset set not an income.

Do they always regard themselves an oppressed group,where has that been illustrated?
You inferred all middle classes could afford Boden.

Do they always regard themselves an oppressed group,where has that been illustrated?
No. Only some. Like portico

Peonyfan · 26/03/2017 16:22

6.9% FSM is not and never has been national average !

This is lifted from a government paper, I will link to it.