Grammar schools proposal so appalling that a cross-party alliance forms to fight them

[noblegiraffe]

Former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg (Lib Dem), former Education Secretary Nicky Morgan (Conservative) and former Shadow Education Secretary Lucy Powell (Labour) have written a joint piece for The Observer condemning the plans by Theresa May to open new selective schools.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/19/help-poorer-pupils-selection-social-mobility-education-brexit-grammar-schools

"The formation of their cross-party alliance against grammar school expansion, which is opposed by about 30 Tory MPs, spells yet more political trouble for May on the domestic front. Last week, chancellor Philip Hammond was forced by a revolt in his own party into a humiliating budget U-turn over national insurance rises for the self-employed, and Conservatives lined up to oppose planned cuts in school funding.

Launching their combined assault, and plans to work together over coming months, in an article in the Observer, Morgan, Powell and Clegg say the biggest challenges for a country facing Brexit, digitisation and changes to the nature of work, are to boost skills, narrow the attainment gap between disadvantaged children and their peers and boost social mobility. By picking a fight over plans to expand selection in schools, May will, they argue, sow division, divert resources away from where they are needed most and harm the causes she claims to be committed to advancing.

Before a debate in the Commons on social mobility this week, the three MPs say it is time to put aside political differences and fight instead for what is right. “We must rise to the challenge with a new national mission to boost education and social mobility for all,” they write. “That’s why we are putting aside what we disagree on, to come together and to build a cross-party consensus in favour of what works for our children – not what sounds good to politicians.”

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/mar/18/cross-party-alliance-grammar-schools-theresa-may

[roundaboutthetown]

No, they will probably have moved over here recently from Singapore.

[noblegiraffe]

If they're home educated it'll be because they are hothoused by pushy parents and don't have a social life.

If they went to a comp then a grammar/private school would have entered them for more subjects to 'stretch' them.

[BertrandRussell]

"No, they will probably have moved over here recently from Singapore. grin"
Oh yes, and their parents will be in incredibly poorly paid and low level jobs and they will be living in one room. Which will be proof positive that pupil premium children don't need any extra help.

Despite the fact that their parents are a university lecturer and an accountant who just haven't been able to find appropriate jobs yet...........

[HPFA]

Well let's hope they're not home educated.....

I never thought of that one!! Would any parents be able to coach to the required level in all the subjects though?

[BertrandRussell]

"Well let's hope they're not home educated.....

I never thought of that one!! Would any parents be able to coach to the required level in all the subjects though?"

They wouldn't have to. Home educated children just soak up learning by osmosis............

[portico]

I squirmed and shifted uncomfortably when noblegiraffe opined:

"If they're home educated it'll be because they are hothoused by pushy parents and don't have a social life.

If they went to a comp then a grammar/private school would have entered them for more subjects to 'stretch' them."

[Devilishpyjamas]

There is a selective online school opening - by the people who run Interhigh. And they're teaching Latin I can't remember their name so can't link but I'm sure they came up as a banner ad on here m.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Aha! infinityeducation.org.uk/index.php

[noblegiraffe]

I squirmed and shifted uncomfortably

? I was joking. That is what will be said though...

[flyingwithwings]

For all this 'hysteria' around the issue of grammar schools , how many schools have even registered an interest in becoming one !

As far as i can make out one school in Medway that had one good year of GCSE results sent out a consultation to parents which got nowhere !

The Weald of Kent Annex in Sevenoaks and a letter from Holyport College stating no ideological problem with selection.

Where is the evidence to suggest children and families will be forced to undergo mass social 'Cleansing' . There is nothing to indicating the unstoppable demand of grammar school conversions is upon us.

[flyingwithwings]

Meopham school in Gravesham 'Kent' not Medway..

[goodbyestranger]

flyingwithwings only the DfE will know which schools have registered an interest at the moment.

[HPFA]

These were the responses to Windsor and Maidenhead's request fro schools to express an interest in selection. They were posted earlier but goodbye may not have seen them.

www3.rbwm.gov.uk/downloads/download/480/grammar_school_response_letters?platform=hootsuite

It's been slightly over-egged as May's local schools saying "No" to selection - the responses don't quite do that although clearly enthusiasm is not great.

[roundaboutthetown]

What all state schools want is more money, not more change.

[HPFA]

Noblegiraffe is not the only person who can persuade her husband into her way of thinking. (Or was that Bertrand?) Oh well someone.

twitter.com/CllrBartley/status/834882139950809092

A Brexit supporting Tory Councillor in Kent wouldn't seem to be a natural convert to the pro-comprehensive cause. Truly, love conquers all!

[flyingwithwings]

15 years ago when i was jealous that my sister and brother went to grammar school and then RG Universities I was a staunch 'Comp' supporter !

"It was not fair that i was sent to a school full of drop- outs and low achievers while my siblings had such a good schooling"

However, as i got older i realized that i was for instance not ready/able to do a degree at 20 or even 30 but '38' was when i was mentally and academically ready.

This means i also believe children develop academically at different ages . Therefore why should bright children have to go to the same school as someone who is behind them academically.

Especially if the only reason is to do with some form of 'equality' or perception of fairness....

[MumTryingHerBest]

flyingwithwings This means i also believe children develop academically at different ages

doesn't this also suggest that academic selection at the age of 10/11 is not a good idea?

[cantkeepawayforever]

The argument about children developing at different ages surely indicates that a comprehensive - where early blooming 11 year olds (or simply those who have good skills in the limited areas tested in the 11+ but are not widely able) can gradually move down to slightly lower sets, or later developing children move up to top sets as their talents and work ethic develop - is by far the better system? Where children are separated into two geographically separate 'silos' at the age of 11, then such moves become infinitely more difficult.

[roundaboutthetown]

flyingwithwings - my children could read and write before they started school. On your logic, separation of children should happen at age 4. Why wait til 11?...

[NWgirls]

Therefore why should bright children have to go to the same school as someone who is behind them academically.

A school has many classrooms, Flying. Segregation into different schools is neither necessary nor desireable. I find your own personal backstory very supportive of comps. Why trigger the heartache of siblings being separated and feel like losers when what is necessary to educate them all well and to their ability, in each subject, is proper setting? (And, yes, some differentiation within the sets would be nice, especially in the top and bottom sets).

That would enable pupils who suddenly "get it" to zoom up the sets, and people with a spiky profile - say a maths genius with weak English - to avoid falling between the cracks/schools.

Cuts and teacher retention/recruitment are the real problems, not the comp model.

[HPFA]

Earlier in the thread there was a discussion about the relative need to differentiate in grammars versus secondary moderns (assuming a "top 25% grammar model). Apologies that the following info is a bit late.

A comparison here between Holmer Green (a popular secondary modern in Bucks) and Henry Floyd grammar (which I believe would be considered a 25% grammar - also in Bucks)

www.hgss.co.uk/_site/data/files/school/results/42E69F99B82BDB9992DF2A47B78E5404.pdf

The results for Holmer Green show a fair few getting A stars in various subjects (an impressive 14 A stars in Maths) along with some getting Fs, Us etc. I think almost all the academic subjects show at least 1 pupil getting an A/A* and usually there's a few more.

And here's the results for Henry Floyd - you actually have to click on the GCSE results 2016 tab - the Exel document does appear with a little persuasion!

www.sirhenryfloyd.bucks.sch.uk/curriculum/examinations/

Obviously there's a higher concentration at the A/A star range - however you will see the range is still pretty wide - a % of C grades and even a few Ds and Es.

So the spread in both schools is pretty much the same although of course the proportions are different.

[lottachocca]

Therefore why should bright children have to go to the same school as someone who is behind them academically
I went to a 25% Grammar School and there were plenty of kids who academically behind and there were at least 10% of kids in my classes who would regularly get single digit scores in exams. Of course they were booted out after GCSE but all schools not just Grammars can be pretty selective for Sixth Form

[Fourmantent]

Within that top band at the sec mod, you might have someone who is exceptional in just one subject. The grammar system is doing them a massive disservice. What was the point of separating them from their high ability peers?

[BertrandRussell]

Well unless you have about a million tiny schools you are not going to avoid going to school with people less intelligent than you. My dd was in the bottom set of 7 for maths in her grammar school. Her presence does not seem to have scarred the top set people. My ds is in the top 7 in his year at his secondary modern. The presence of the bottom set does not appear to have scarred him, even though he shares PE, Assemblies, the dinner hall and a couple of lessons with them........

[flyingwithwings]

Within that top band at the sec mod, you might have someone who is exceptional in just one subject. The grammar system is doing them a massive disservice. What was the point of separating them from their high ability peers?

I think a 40% grammar school model would address most of the problem you have suggested . No system would cover every child that had ability in just one subject . However, i think a 40% grammar model would place 95% of children with academic potential in it.

I don't think we would have many 'unlucky' losers especially if 15% of the 40% (meaning only 25% chosen directly from 11+) . The 15% could be chosen not just from their 11+ scores but classwork attitude and the potential for parental support. (the last bit is controversial but factually true.

I find your own personal backstory very supportive of comps. Why trigger the heartache of siblings being separated and feel like losers when what is necessary to educate them all .

My problem with education was down to a total 'inept' system from top to bottom that existed 30+ years ago ! The type of school i went to had no effect . The problem was a total ignorance and teachers devoid of any idea how to teach someone who was not 'neurotypical'. A Comprehensive school 30 years ago would have been just as bad and may have exposed to bullying by the would be grammar kids !