Grammar schools proposal so appalling that a cross-party alliance forms to fight them

[noblegiraffe]

Former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg (Lib Dem), former Education Secretary Nicky Morgan (Conservative) and former Shadow Education Secretary Lucy Powell (Labour) have written a joint piece for The Observer condemning the plans by Theresa May to open new selective schools.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/19/help-poorer-pupils-selection-social-mobility-education-brexit-grammar-schools

"The formation of their cross-party alliance against grammar school expansion, which is opposed by about 30 Tory MPs, spells yet more political trouble for May on the domestic front. Last week, chancellor Philip Hammond was forced by a revolt in his own party into a humiliating budget U-turn over national insurance rises for the self-employed, and Conservatives lined up to oppose planned cuts in school funding.

Launching their combined assault, and plans to work together over coming months, in an article in the Observer, Morgan, Powell and Clegg say the biggest challenges for a country facing Brexit, digitisation and changes to the nature of work, are to boost skills, narrow the attainment gap between disadvantaged children and their peers and boost social mobility. By picking a fight over plans to expand selection in schools, May will, they argue, sow division, divert resources away from where they are needed most and harm the causes she claims to be committed to advancing.

Before a debate in the Commons on social mobility this week, the three MPs say it is time to put aside political differences and fight instead for what is right. “We must rise to the challenge with a new national mission to boost education and social mobility for all,” they write. “That’s why we are putting aside what we disagree on, to come together and to build a cross-party consensus in favour of what works for our children – not what sounds good to politicians.”

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/mar/18/cross-party-alliance-grammar-schools-theresa-may

portico you might be interested to know how the voting goes among teachers (and students) at our grammar in mock elections at general election or referendum time. The Tories haven't 'won' in memory.

Ok, who do you blame for the 75/25 situation. Also, surely it's easier to set/teach and review the schemes of work in the 75 school

I think they need to point out that if the 'elections' were real , the Teachers would be out of a job and the Kids would have to go to 'Boot Hill Comprehensive' !

I don't vote as I cannot find any differentiation amongst the three main parties. That being said, they are all progressively liberal - for better or worse

This is getting silly. If you have a three town school and the top 25% in ability are in one school and the rest in the other two then that is a different situation to when all levels of ability are spread between the three schools.

We can argue which situation is better/worse. But it's surely impossible to argue the situations are the same.

"Ok, who do you blame for the 75/25 situation. Also, surely it's easier to set/teach and review the schemes of work in the 75 school"

I don't understand the question.

I was trying to say it would be easier for teachers to teach kids in the 75 school as there won't be much differentiation between them, given the top 25% are at the other school

Not much differentiation in a school that takes 75% of a cohort?

Do you think they all just count as "thick"?

OMG portico - you really do view anyone not in a superselective as a pleb don't you? I despair at the narrow definition of intelligence that some possess. You do understand that passing the eleven plus doesn't tell you all that much about a child's intelligence don't you? (Why am I asking? Obviously not).

Not much differentiation in a school that takes 75% of a cohort?
Do you think they all just count as "thick"?

No, do not think they are thick. I just think the spectrum of abilities is a little narrower, and therefore easier to teach to.

You are having a laugh?

OMG portico - you really do view anyone not in a superselective as a pleb don't you?

Guess that makes me a pleb, too. I didn't attend grammar school.

Maybe that's why you have a weird idea of what goes on inside them?

7 sets in the 75% school. None except in maths in the 25% school.

Do you really think that if you take 100 people the 25 at the top will show more differentiation than the other 75? Really?

The top 25 can work at a faster pace. The CEM 11 plus exam bears a strong correlation between 11 plus test performance and the aptitude in picking up newer and deeper content at pace. If you lumped the 25 with the other 75, you may not be able to work at such a pace, as you need to work at a speed to enable all students to absorb the class learning. This helps the less able out of the 75 cohort. It doesn't really stretch the top 25.

I still want to hear why you think there is less differentiation of ability in 75% of the cohort than in the top 25%.

I now what to know why you think the top 25 will be "lumped it" with the 75% unless they are put in a separate school.

Consider the top 25% as initial on track to gain A/B grades. The other 75% will contain a spectrum from A to E grades, with a proviso of some but few grade As.

I also undertake enrichment work with my children and also get asked my neighbours to help their kids ad hoc in maths and science. Their kids attend the local comp. I can readily patterns/trends in differences between both schools when I have compared Y7, 8 and 9.

portico - The CEM 11 plus exam bears a strong correlation between 11 plus test performance and the aptitude in picking up newer and deeper content at pace.

Is this based on specific research (in which case a link would be useful) or just your own observations?

Go to the CEM website and pour over the articles

Btw, we were also told at the open evenings, by the headmasters at a couple of the schools, about the CEM aptitude correlation

portico Go to the CEM website and pour over the articles

How about you point me in the direction of the article you are referring to rather than asking me to read through everything on their website?

portico Btw, we were also told at the open evenings, by the headmasters at a couple of the schools, about the CEM aptitude correlation

Really? Every single school I visited talked about the initally and on going internal assessments (e.g. CATs) they themselves would be conducting to help them identify ability groupings/progress/targets etc. I can honestly say that not a single one of them mentioned the CEM test.

portico I'm surprised at what you say about differentiation too.

Even in a super selective taking the top 10% of the ability range teachers need to be able to differentiate all the time. They need to engage the passive learners, they need to identify and challenge the truly gifted - a whole host of differentiation should be going on in every lesson every day. I can't think how you can lump 75% of the ability range together as a homogeneous group, or even the top 25%, given that the top 10% are so varied.

Mum ny understanding too is that CEM claim that their tests correlate more closely with GCSE scores than the previously used tests, but time probably has to tell on that one.

portico - when talking about IQ, the vast majority of the top 25% bear far more resemblance to everyone else in terms of ability than the top 1%, and the top 0.1% would think the top 1% a bit dimwitted... All these arguments about being held back just come across as precious when you are talking about 25%, or even 10%, of people. The IQ of someone in the top 25% of the population is really not that high... nor even that of the top 10%.