Grammar schools proposal so appalling that a cross-party alliance forms to fight them

[noblegiraffe]

Former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg (Lib Dem), former Education Secretary Nicky Morgan (Conservative) and former Shadow Education Secretary Lucy Powell (Labour) have written a joint piece for The Observer condemning the plans by Theresa May to open new selective schools.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/19/help-poorer-pupils-selection-social-mobility-education-brexit-grammar-schools

"The formation of their cross-party alliance against grammar school expansion, which is opposed by about 30 Tory MPs, spells yet more political trouble for May on the domestic front. Last week, chancellor Philip Hammond was forced by a revolt in his own party into a humiliating budget U-turn over national insurance rises for the self-employed, and Conservatives lined up to oppose planned cuts in school funding.

Launching their combined assault, and plans to work together over coming months, in an article in the Observer, Morgan, Powell and Clegg say the biggest challenges for a country facing Brexit, digitisation and changes to the nature of work, are to boost skills, narrow the attainment gap between disadvantaged children and their peers and boost social mobility. By picking a fight over plans to expand selection in schools, May will, they argue, sow division, divert resources away from where they are needed most and harm the causes she claims to be committed to advancing.

Before a debate in the Commons on social mobility this week, the three MPs say it is time to put aside political differences and fight instead for what is right. “We must rise to the challenge with a new national mission to boost education and social mobility for all,” they write. “That’s why we are putting aside what we disagree on, to come together and to build a cross-party consensus in favour of what works for our children – not what sounds good to politicians.”

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/mar/18/cross-party-alliance-grammar-schools-theresa-may

Fourmantent, how very egalitarian and altruistic your points are. Not! It didn't benefit my children or the others who were coerced into helping the poor performers, for unreasonably long periods of time in Years, 4, 5 and 6. Teachers and their assistant should do this. Children are there to learn from teachers, any peer learning should be incidental.

DD4 was in a class where four year groups were taught by a single teacher and she was tasked to sit next to a massively disruptive child to help him concentrate etc. and to help him with his work. That was in Y5 and Y6 after he was excluded from another school. I don't think it did her any harm at that stage and it did seem to do him some good but I wouldn't think she could do that same thing right through secondary and it not have an impact. I was fine with it in primary and think parents can get over the top about their DC not helping others. I think it gave her some perspective on the difficulties some kids have - but that's a slightly oblique benefit and won't carry her through life without decent GCSEs etc to her name. There are limits is what I mean, and the cleverest DC do seem to be a bit put upon where teachers are stretched. Had the teacher not been attempting a nearly impossible job I doubt DD4 would have been wheeled in to help.

Four year groups. Are you stretching the truth a bit.

No. What on earth would be the point. I assume you find it sufficiently odd to make that comment (rather than being rude) but the children in Y3, 4, 5 and 6 at that school were and still are taught in a single room. It's a small village primary and that arrangement is not uncommon around here. R, Y1 and Y2 are taught in a second room together too, with a single teacher and a TA.

Perhaps, you should have mentioned it was a small village single room primary, and you should have mentioned the numbers. Your omission of these facts is what made your comment misleading. Btw, what was the aggregated number in this small village primary.

If a teacher is in the position of having to teach 4 year groups then I would be happy if she called the caretaker's cat in to give her a hand........

My ds2 rather enjoys explaining how to do things to the less able children. So long as it isn't 100% of the time (although for my df in the 1940s, his last year of primary literally was spent teaching other children, being allowed to read books of his choosing in the staffroom and making cups of tea for the teachers - he thought it was fantastic). Each to his own.

BertrandRussell said

"If a teacher is in the position of having to teach 4 year groups then I would be happy if she called the caretaker's cat in to give her a hand........"

The mind boggles.

Most of those who decry grammar school, would be be amongst the first to get their kids into one if there was a grammar school, locally.

I think everyone who supports a comprehensive system would be quite open that if forced to "choose" between grammar and secondary modern they would prefer grammar. so I don't think that's any great secret.

On kids helping other kids, depends on the extent it's done surely? Being able to explain things to others is a fairly vital life skill isn't it?

HPFA said

"On kids helping other kids, depends on the extent it's done surely? Being able to explain things to others is a fairly vital life skill isn't it?"

I agree to an extent.However, it seems to be factored in as a natural way of working - presumably to paper over the cracks in the paucity of the teaching provision.

portico the numbers amounted to a normal sized class in both rooms in the school but I like the fact that you're on the one hand very solicitous of your own DC and on the other think that it's a doddle to cover the syllabus for four year groups simultaneously and deal with the differentiation required for the extremes in the class (exceptionally bright through to verbally and physically disruptive DC). I take my hat off to her - she operated on her own and did a pretty good job but there's no doubt that DD4 was tasked to look after the disruptive DC because of lack of teaching provision, not for DD4's own good. Anyhow it wasn't forever because they went onto different schools.

Goodbyestranger - nice song from Supertramp.

I think it was more than remiss for the lea to allow a siruation to cur where four distinct year groups were allowed to be taught by one teacher. It smacks of negligence. The kids should have been shipped to the nearest primary day school, to be taught in the age appropriate year groups. I have nothing but admiration for the teacher. I would be fucked off if if I was the parent of one of the kids. TBH, if I lived in that village I would have ensured I moved or made arrangements to send them to the nearest proper primary school.

"Most of those who decry grammar school, would be be amongst the first to get their kids into one if there was a grammar school, locally."

Well, if the choice was grammar or secondary modern and your child was in the group that was shipped off to the the grammar school then yes of course.

I am increasingly becoming convinced that goodbyestranger lives in Slad in 1920.

Well, if the choice was grammar or secondary modern and your child was in the group that was shipped off to the the grammar school then yes of course.

Wrong. It's grammar or comprehensives.

Bollocks it is... As you are so convinced that anyone with the choice would choose a grammar, it is quite clearly grammar or second best/inferior that you are envisaging.

portico - Wrong. It's grammar or comprehensives.

You evidently have access to information such as how many and where. Care to share?

Just because some kids gain entry to grammar schools does not transform the comp into a sec modern. Don't think you will have an issue with recruiting teachers to the remaining comps. Left wing bias is so drilled in at teacher training college and various unions, very few would dare to venture out of the comps.

"Wrong. It's grammar or comprehensives."

Not where I live it isn't!

Portico- we have two secondary schools in the nearest town to me. They are a mile apart. The "top" 25% are in one. The other 75% are in the other. How is that a grammar and a comprehensive?

"Don't think you will have an issue with recruiting teachers to the remaining comps. Left wing bias is so drilled in at teacher training college and various unions, very few would dare to venture out of the comps"

Oh, as you were. We're in right wing nutter territory.

No, I am politically agnostic.

Portico- we have two secondary schools in the nearest town to me. They are a mile apart. The "top" 25% are in one. The other 75% are in the other. How is that a grammar and a comprehensive?

Presumably, this must have more to do with catchments

No. it's to do with the 11+!

Yes quite portico, about the tune.

Not quite Bert - Slad is nearer urban life than we are :)

portico I think I'm going off on a frolic here about DC helping less able or disruptive DC so apologies to others -and I won't pursue it after this - but it really isn't a negligent set up; it's how it has to be to make the finances work. No way was I going to move from my home after decades here, just to access a different primary - that seems incredibly extreme and how about the wasted cost involved: stamp duty, removal etc. We like it here! You must move in a different world where people move house for primary schools. It's worked out fine - it often works out fine if you go with the flow and don't complain to schools, especially if they're doing their best in a difficult climate.