Tories pour millions into new grammars while state schools discuss the possibility of a 4 day week

[noblegiraffe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/theresa-may-unveils-plans-new-generation-grammar-schools/

In a cowardly move, the Tories are publishing their White Paper on grammars before publishing the responses to the Green Paper which, the best thing Justine Greening could say about them was that they were 'not overwhelmingly negative'.

What a bunch of fucking shite. And where are they going to get the thousands of pounds required for free transport for golden ticket poor kids? The only potential money-saver here is that we know that the vast majority of poor kids don't get into grammars. Why not save this money and put it into the school that the poor kid would be going to originally? Then everyone would win, including the poor kid who isn't faced with a long commute, the poor kid who didn't get into the grammar, and the 90% of kids who aren't 'grammar material' (decided by a faulty test which puts kids in the wrong school aged 10) who would see more investment in their education which is desperately needed at the moment.

PPS
Where I live is in the 9th Decile for deprivation, entirely surrounded by the 10th
the area does not need to be posh to be unaffordable

Talkin, and it was of your situation that I was thinking when i was thinking about under what circumstances was bussing children 'OK' in the general scheme of things. Tbh, it sounds as if 100% bussing, followed by closure of your local school, might be the best option for the common good!

But Greenginger, your school isn't a comp - because you are in a grammar area, it is a secondary modern. If the grammar didn't exist, and that 10% or whatever of children weren't creamed off, then there would be more more able children, and the provision for this much larger group might be better [also note previous comment about more able children making more progress, and this affecting the data for 'other' schools in selective areas]

So criticising a secondary modern for not being as good at catering for very able children as the grammar is something of a tautology....

GreenGinger2 Thu 09-Mar-17 19:54:08 Well bully for you. Many haven't bought in expensive areas and are pushed out.

I bought my house quite some years ago which made it affordable. It wasn't an expensive area when I moved here.

Do I mean tautology? Having a moment of doubt here!

Flying Re:your point about the 1% the author of the data has published a fuller account here. More to come apparently
theconversation.com/grammar-schools-why-academic-selection-only-benefits-the-very-affluent-74189

The SES statistics apparently refer to a variety of factors affecting your social status. So "top 1%" isn't based solely on income.

I expect you are right - most of the 1% wealthy probably do go private. But presumably it could be accurate to say "Of those 1% who sit the 11+ 80% will pass" AND "the majority of the 1% will go private"

Can't it isn't a grammar area,said grammars take from hundreds of primaries. There are several comps to choose from,more are creamed off by the preferred alternative comp which has a bus fee involved too.

We live near a massive council estate. There are 2 junior schools in the council estate. If a grammar school opens up anywhere near here, the chance of any of these kids getting in will be almost zero. There are kids there who have never been on holiday! The last thing these kids need is to end up in a secondary modern. At least they have a slim chance in a comprehensive.

To anyone in favour of grammars... if you would not be happy for your child to fail their 11+ (by 2 marks) and go to a secondary modern, then I don't understand how you possibly be in favour of grammar schools? And if you genuinely wouldn't mind your child failing then I don't get that either, as the evidence is that they would be worse off at a sec mod than at a comp.

Lucky you mum. I love the way those lucky enough to buy in expensive areas years ago are lecturing to all re the affordability of expensive areas. More and more families can not now buy in any area let alone the most expensive. Rents are rocketing.

It is frustrating that these conversations are always about the perceived needs of the most able. As if they are the most important grou.

Fourmantent I could be wrong but it does appear that those posting on this thread in favour of Grammar schools have had or currently have DCs in Grammar schools.

FWIW I just compared my local school with the school my DCs went to.

One has "Progress 8" of +0.34 the other has -0.25 (national average 0)

One has "Attainment 8" of over 57 the other has under 42 (national average 50)

One had 98% of pupils carrying on to 6th form or a job, the other had 89% (national average 94%)

Both are Ofsted "Good"

Bertrand
If a Hard Brexit happens, the in demand kids will the middle sets of the Sec Mods ....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39216136

GreenGinger2 Thu 09-Mar-17 20:12:37 Lucky you mum. I love the way those lucky enough to buy in expensive areas years ago

I've already stated that the area was not expensive when I bought my house.

It had nothing to do with luck. I bought a house in the area because I wanted to live in the area. I wasn't looking to buy a school place. I didn't even have kids and they were certainly not even a thought at that point.

Yes lucky me. I could send my DC to a local school in the area in which I have lived for quite some years.

I find it hard to have simpathy for those who stamp their feet because they can't buy a school place because the house prices are too high. How dare all those other parents trying to do the same as you price you out of the market.

Bertrand Sen kids are catered for. I have one. She has had far more spent on her education by the state than my other two.

Able kids don't generally cost a lot of money( even G&T courses are paid for by their parents), grammars don't get extra funding.

They have never been regarded as the most needy group. The bellyaching stated up by one poster on here re the fact the new progress 8 meant brighter kids no longer get shoved to one side as regards progress kind of illustrates the attitude towards them in comps. The less able are the priority for staff.

I'm not stamping my feet Mum. My kids are at Outstanding kids and thriving,perfectly happy with my lot thanks.

I am simply thinking of friends and family priced out of comps they want to send their kids to.

GreenGinger2 Thu 09-Mar-17 20:21:28 Bertrand Sen kids are catered for. I have one. She has had far more spent on her education by the state than my other two.

Well lucky you. My DC with SEN has had nothing spent on them because they are not underperforming (by national standards).

Why the 'Sarcastic' comments Talkin ! At least there will be jobs to be filled and available !

Guess what they might even need to employ people with 'ASD' which might mean i will get a look in instead of being Fucked off for being Autistic !

GreenGinger2 Thu 09-Mar-17 20:23:41 I am simply thinking of friends and family priced out of comps they want to send their kids to

Priced out by families doing exactly the same as what they are trying to do?

flying
Have you read the article I linked ?
Brits do not apply. THAT is why they do not get the jobs.
Round here we have very low levels of attainment, high deprivation and employers desperate for workers unable to persuade Brits to take them.
So they hire Hungarians who speak no English.

After Brexit the shortage of workers will be most critical in the unskilled low paid roles.
Grammar school alumni are unlikely to apply.

Well er yes but clearly the richest win.

At the moment and probably for the rest of time there are/will/be few opportunities for any child that does not have a degree !

the unavoidable Fact is 45% of jobs could be lost to robots within the next twenty to thirty years !

The very jobs that you don't rate or suggest are not sought after, will be the best 'many' graduates will aspire to in 20-30 years !....

On the other hand noble says it wouldn't be appropriate to support disadvantaged DC at that early years stage. noble seems determined to dissuade disadvantaged DC from selective schooling at all costs.

That's bollocks. I think it's entirely appropriate to support disadvantaged DC in the early years. What I think is entirely inappropriate is arranging things so that instead of supporting kids with useful things, they have to be prepped for a nonsense test.

I live in an area where there aren't any grammars. Kids aren't tutored in primary for the 11+ like they are in e.g. Kent, thousands of pounds and thousands of hours being wasted by parents trying to get into particular schools.

I am totally dismayed at the thought of a grammar school opening up nearby and this huge rigmarole that plagues so many parents coming to my town too. All these posts on MN about tutoring from 5, moving house, sitting half a dozen tests are simply not a feature of education where I am.

To hear people suggesting that it would be good for poor kids in my area to have a grammar school open up and their primary years to suddenly feature coaching and practice papers and timed whatnot, to attempt to get into a particular school that chances are they won't make it into, is bizarre. It would be great to say 'can we have the money that you want to put into this shitty enterprise, we'll use it to improve the comp and you and your divisive grammar system can fuck off back to Whitehall' would be awesome.

There are three secondary schools in Winchester.
Westgate
Kings
Henry Beaufort
Which should become the grammar and which two the secondary moderns ?