Tories pour millions into new grammars while state schools discuss the possibility of a 4 day week

[noblegiraffe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/theresa-may-unveils-plans-new-generation-grammar-schools/

In a cowardly move, the Tories are publishing their White Paper on grammars before publishing the responses to the Green Paper which, the best thing Justine Greening could say about them was that they were 'not overwhelmingly negative'.

What a bunch of fucking shite. And where are they going to get the thousands of pounds required for free transport for golden ticket poor kids? The only potential money-saver here is that we know that the vast majority of poor kids don't get into grammars. Why not save this money and put it into the school that the poor kid would be going to originally? Then everyone would win, including the poor kid who isn't faced with a long commute, the poor kid who didn't get into the grammar, and the 90% of kids who aren't 'grammar material' (decided by a faulty test which puts kids in the wrong school aged 10) who would see more investment in their education which is desperately needed at the moment.

GreenGinger2 Thu 09-Mar-17 19:26:43 We could never live in the catchment of the best comps

When you say the best comps. do you mean the top 100 in the league tables or any Ofsted outstanding rated comp. in the country?

Can't the tiny amount of grammars involved means we aren't talking about the common good.

Some parents want musical,or sporty schools,some want the formal style and ethos of grammars. I firmly believe there is no one size fits all and variety is good.

To be fair, GreenGinger, some of the older Grammar foundations do have foundation money - as well as a group of alumni who are perhaps more likely to donate to extra funding initiatives - so some do have access to sources of funds that comprehensives do not.

EVERYTHIBNG contributes to the common good. Government time spent legislating for, pontificating about and funding a class of schools that works against the common good is significant.

If there is a tiny number, and so they are genuinely insignificant, abolishing them and replacing them with comprehensives should make no difference .. or do they suddenly seem more significant?

Can't no just personal experience albeit primary.

I've had kids leapfrogging several lower levels in various areas in my teaching days. Up at the higher levels it sometimes slowed down. Also a level 6 from primary is very different to that at secondary.

Can only grammars have a formal style and ethos?

Are you sure?

GreenGinger2 Thu 09-Mar-17 19:33:53 The point is they certainly don't get more money.

Erm, no. The claim you have made is that they get less -

(that get less funding when finished)

Grammers are vastly underfunded,they get less not more than comps.

Perhaps you can elaborate?

MumTryingHerBest yes I did get that you weren't being serious. My reply wasn't hugely serious either.

You ask why I support selective education if I think secondary is too late? I think you're maybe missing another point. Clearly disadvantaged children need support at an earlier stage to help them match the advantage other DC have, in order to allow them to achieve educationally in primary and to therefore compete on a more even playing field with those more advantaged DC. What noble and I both mean is that support is required before a disadvantaged DC takes the 11+. noble now says no support at primary level will suffice because once early years education is passed it's too late. On the other hand noble says it wouldn't be appropriate to support disadvantaged DC at that early years stage. noble seems determined to dissuade disadvantaged DC from selective schooling at all costs. This is an attitude the grammar school heads encounter frequently among primary school heads, which doesn't make the task of access initiatives easier.

Many areas of the country are only open to the richest families.
What utter piffle.
There are poor people everywhere in the country
but the rich do not recognise them as people.

The median income in London is £24,000
ie half of all Londoners earn less than that

I cannot afford to buy my own home, but I can afford to stay put.

That isn't all grammars. Surely you could say that about the older comps in wealthy areas. All of our local grammars are really struggling. They get 60% less than London schools and have done for years.This is going to increase now.

And surely parents bussing their kids out to the better comps( not even the best) which is far more widespread is then not good for the common good.

Well sorry not everybody is eligible for social housing. We couldn't afford to live in London or the Home Counties without it. We couldn't even live in the catchment for the best comp in the county next to us.

Greenginger
surely parents bussing their kids out to the better comps
AS somebody who did exactly that, I need to correct your assertion.

The school was a comp.
All we had to do to get the kids in was submit our postcodes to the LEA
the school knew nothing about us
so ALL kids got on the bus
rich, poor, brainy, brawny, immigrant, indigenous
the bus was open to any and all who shelled out the £2.20 return fare

Can't if there was a formal outstanding comp near to us in an area that we could afford I would have sent my DC. There isn't so they're at grammars.

Well sorry not everybody is eligible for social housing.
Nor am I.
I own my home. I bought it a long time ago. But I cannot afford to move now.

Your bus costs more than ours to grammar.

GreenGinger, all schools outside London get less than London schools. It isn't unique to grammars.

Bussing children to a school perceived as better, where the place was obtained absolutely fairly through an admissions process that is transparent (ie has catchment areas that are fairly drawn to include all local areas; has no oversubscription criteria that are proxy measures for wealth [test passing sadly is one of these]; only gives priority to siblings in ctachment) and where playing the system - e.g. house flipping, temporary rental - is rigorously policed seems to me not too bad, in the general scheme of things. Of course, fair banding is fairer, and ensuring all schools have the area average FSM, would be better still.

Well bully for you. Many haven't bought in expensive areas and are pushed out.

goodbyestranger Thu 09-Mar-17 19:43:51 This is an attitude the grammar school heads encounter frequently among primary school heads,

Interesting you should say that. The local primary schools in my area were asked to to sign an agreement stating they would not assist in preparing DCs for the 11 plus. This has been a long standing agreement.

Two years ago the primary school heads rebelled and have started offering sessions to assist DCs in preparing for the test. Apparently this didn't go down well with the secondary school heads. We were sent a letter by our primary school that suggested it was being frowned upon but they were going to do it anyway.

Greenginger - why does it have to be outstanding? Can you point me to evidence that able children do significantly worse in a comp that is - dare I say it - merely labelled 'good'?

GreenGinger2 Thu 09-Mar-17 19:46:20 All of our local grammars are really struggling.

Don't worry, if they close down you can jump ship and join the shiny new Grammar Schools.

Greenginger
Firstbus set their own fares - its a public bus.

cantkeep
500 families from round here send their kids to other schools
as the local one is universally regarded as dire (based on exams, ofsted, you name it)

I'd much rather the Local school was changed to improve it but politics prevents that.

At least I live near schools, unlike the people in the centre of town who have no school for miles.

GreenGinger2 Thu 09-Mar-17 19:48:50 We couldn't afford to live in London or the Home Counties without it.

Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Surrey, and Sussex are all home counties. Interestingly they all have Grammar Schools too. Funny that.

Affordability is an interesting one.

What it often means is 'I couldn't move there and buy a house the same as my existing one' - obviously that doesn't mean that those who have always lived in an area, or who simply live in a smaller house or flat and are used to that, have the same problem.

Schools can be Good and not stretch the more able. Ours doesn't as mentioned by Ofsted,it's progress results are crap, it's provision in the 2 areas one of my DC were G&T at were dire.

Completely different story at the grammar.