City of London Girls full and withdrawing offers - anyone heard similar and advice?

[NL2016]

Admissions office of the City of London Girls school is now saying that they have had the target number of girls confirming acceptance and are downgrading firm offers to those who have not yet accepted back to the waiting list, all before 6 March deadline!!! any one heard anything and any advice how to handle this situation is appreciated!

This preference system that Dancegirl is proposing does not work because parents will change their mind if an unexpected scholarship offer appears. Also more reading, more visiting, more talking, more "foruming" will change things. Might as well abolish the private system all together. Having money and a bright motivated kid will always be advantageous. Although I find the practice of CLGS outrageous, it is unlikely that a DD with an offer from that school has no other offers at all and will have no school to go to.

I maintain that asking heads to confirm that they have written no more than 4 references is an easier way to manage the process.

As I posted up thread, it was important that DD made the choice. She had two great alternatives, went to the offer days, and considered both very carefully. This is not faffing.

I wonder whether CLGS are deliberately pointing their catchment eastwards. It is an area of great population growth and they will be first choice school for academic girls living to the east, in the way that JAGS is for those to the south, SPGS (and others) to the west, and NCLS to the north.

Next year East London parents are likely to accept straight away, whilst West London parents could well want time to consider several offers.

This is not a necessarily a bad thing, in that aside from an Islington core, the CLSG catchment is very scattered. But it will impact those whose alternatives are state or alternative scholarship offers. And these are often girls who will make a real contribution to the school and its diversity.

We are on the cusp of all this with a Y5 DC and I am so not looking forward to the process.

Surely the only honourable approach for CLSG is to not to allow any parents to accept an offer until 24-48hrs after the offer holders' day (or better still, until after March 6th)? Yes, there'd be an online free-for-all around the acceptance deadline, but at least everyone with an offer would have the chance to see the school again before having to make a decision.

There's a balance to be struck here and what Dancer doesn't seem to take into account, is the fact that people are spending over £100k on these schools, so feel it is perfectly reasonable to have some time to think.

Schools recognise this too. As businesses providing a service, they spend a lot of money and effort trying to attract customers. The glossy brochures, impressive open days, lovely catering at all working open mornings, goody bags, opportunities to look again, scholarships etc are signs of a school trying to woo their customers. And yes, some are very popular with huge numbers taking the exams, yet they cannot be complacent and ignore the wishes of those customers, because each child can only attend one school and ensuring the cleverest accept is key to continuing to perform well and attract more students in future.

I suspect City have made a mistake this year. They won't have imagined the list would be full before Offer Holders Open Day. Their attempt to regain a bit of control in the market where parents can hold numerous offers and they can't be certain about who will accept, has resulted in a full school (assuming they all actually stick with it and don't pull out for a better offer) but probably quite a lot of poor publicity which might have a negative impact next year.
I would think that next year they might over offer by less again. Of course we don't know how many people find themselves with an exploded offer this year or how many of them would have had it as their top choice in the end. Even if there were only a handful who have lost the school they really wanted, all of those who have had an offer explode will feel disgruntled and that news gets about - not the publicity the school will want. Perhaps they will abandon the policy for next year,mor maybe not and perhaps other schools might adopt it.

However the more parents can express their dislike of this approach, both at City and at other schools too, the more schools who do need to be mindful of their customers, might feel reluctant to use this approach.

horsemad that is a good point about scholarships and nurseries and I would agree that would affect things. This is not just about CLSG this year, I have actually been thinking about this for a while. I'm not convinced about the indie process running well, what with the same group of pupils having offers at all the same schools, and pushing out those who are just below who don't get any offers, it's far from a perfect system.

gavel no-one is talking about favouring only one particular school and I understand your reasoning. But you could say X school would be my first choice (if a place was awarded) but would also be happy with Y and Z schools.

As for travel to a school - can be done way before an offer becomes reality so you know it's a possibility (or not) should an offer be made.

Didn't NLCS put in a bulge class one year because they over--offered and had too many acceptances? They have the space to do it, City don't.

There is no indie school process and there never will be, other than for the odd voluntary consortium (eg the north London consortia which CLSG withdrew from a coup,e of years ago).

Independent schools are exactly that - independent. For their admissions as well as for everything else. Yes, it can be horrible for those in hotspots, but I think eroding schools' independence would be a highly retrograde step.

"Didn't NLCS put in a bulge class one year because they over--offered and had too many acceptances? They have the space to do it, City don't."

Yes, but oit really the point. Because other schools are not fucking up their numbers, not running bulge classes etc. and they don't rescind offers as part of achieving that.

City's performance in this, and their whole approach, is pretty woeful and I hope they will improve their standards drastically. I note a poster has said they were the pleasantest admissions dept to deal with. Unfortunately that is inadequate in the face of such incometence with numbers that they resort to being unable to honour their word.

Independent schools are exactly that - independent. For their admissions as well as for everything else. Yes, it can be horrible for those in hotspots, but I think eroding schools' independence would be a highly retrograde step

Yes I suppose so newt And the state school system is far from perfect either. Don't get me started on all the kids sitting state school exams as a free mock with no intention of applying to the school

NLCS had too many acceptances once (about 15 years ago). The story I got at the time was that they had offered their usual number and factored in the expected percentage of refusals (Habs sibs, HB) but, that one year, everyone said yes. They did the honourable thing and had a year of 120 girls.They had space for a bulge class but it was chaos for a month. Lesson learned and now don't over offer. They go to their waitlist.

dancergirl you dont know me or anyone else on this thread so dont presume to tell us how we should have gone about selecting a secondary school for our children. Many people, including us, didn't have one overall favourite and just felt lucky to get an offer from any of the three schools we had already pre-selected as a good fit, having already weeded out the others and not applied there. Not everyone does crazy blanket applications to seven indepenedent schools, every state grammar within 4 counties and the local comp you know. And yes, you're right, knowing someone that works at a super selective grammar, the process there is just as shambolic if not more so (not to mention extremely dodgy) and don't get me started on morally questionable Church schools where my children aren't even allowed to apply.

gavel you don't have to get so defensive, I was just pointing out the faults in the system.

No you weren't you were saying people should have a definite first choice, should have already worked out detailed bus routes (which, incidentally, changed for us between application time and offer day) and were being entitled and spoilt by wanting to have a week or so to make a decision - rude I thought. Everyone on this thread agrees all the education systems in this country have varying degrees of flaws and this is a worrying development in the independent one, which is why we're discussing it. And I'm not being defensive, my child is already at our preferred secondary school and I'm never likely to be a customer of this one, so clearly the way we went about it, including the 2 weeks faffing and trying bus routes, worked well for us.

Hope everyone this year gets an offer they're happy with - it does all work itself out by September!

gavel well I apologise if you think I was being rude.

Every year on the 11+ forum there are posts wanting information on complicated journeys to and from particular schools. Often at this time of year, after offers have gone out. Some people really not consider these things until the last minute.

Maybe indies should offer on the same day as state schools, 1st March....Then people can consider all their options immediately. Just a thought, don't know if it would work.

"I was just pointing out the faults in the system."

But the point is that there is no system (when it's competitive entry, as opposed to trad CE).

So although I find CLSG's new(ish) approach reprehensible, it is a policy they are free to adopt, as long as they are very clear about how it works.

And the rescinding of offers this year may well have reverberations for future rounds.

While I feel for those who 'lost out', did anyone read the admissions booklet before they applied.. it clearly states, I quote in relation to accepting offers:

'Should we reach our maximum capacity for new intake before this acceptance deadline has passed, we may need to prioritise acceptances on time of receipt. We therefore recommend that you let us know your decision as soon as you can'

Yeah I see what City means, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that you'll be able to attend the offers morning before having to make a decision. Personally, this was key for us as it's very different looking round a school that is a real possibility as opposed to one you're finding fault with in case they reject your child.

To the extent that we're almost thinking of not attending any pre exam open days and just going for the three/four nearest schools with a good reputation and then viewing them after.

It's like Blair (sorry!) saying about Brexit - that it was like agreeing to a house swap before knowing what the house looks like.

getmeoutofhere123

They can be as clear as they like in their literature, but they are in the same position as all the other schools listed here and have adopted a policy that favours the school not the applicant. That alone is tells me more about the ethos of the school than the open day did. [sorry to repeat my post]

"It is an area of great population growth and they [CLSG] will be first choice school for academic girls living to the east"

Bancroft's is a highly academic school eastwards, though coed, so if you definitely wanted single sex the above may well apply! Interestingly co-ed seems to be more the norm for the private schools out east afaik - whereas central london still has a wide range of all-girls. Not sure why there is that difference!

Interesting suggestion to make all offers on state school offer day. My hunch is that marginally fewer people would accept the private school in that case. That is because if you hear on 10 Feb that you've got one of your private school choices you do become a bit invested in it - you go to the offer holders' open day and so on. At the margins, I would say that extra time makes a few people less likely to switch to state if you get an offer of a state school a month later.

The obvious point here is that it was perfectly possible for City to do what most other top schools do which is not to make too many offers and operate a proper waiting list. It isn't rocket science and other schools don't rescind offers nor do they need to offer bulge classes.

Yes, the risk of this happening was tucked away in the terms and conditions and it was mentioned in the offer email (which was too late to be expressly flagging it up) but it was absolutely NOT advertised by the school at Open Days. No doubt it would have gone down like a lead balloon if the Head had spelt out at the Open Day that unlike other schools City don't make guaranteed offers, they make conditional offers only. Instead she used generic words about City wanting girls who have them as first choice. Not quite the same thing, not even close. That is the truth of it and hiding behind terms and conditions is a politician's approach especially when it is the children who have earned their places through their hard work and commitment.

Indeed a school that withdraws offers before its own risibly titled "Offer Holders Open Morning" has patently lost control of its own admissions process. That is inarguable.

Yes, they are perfectly entitled to do what they want just as parents in future years are perfectly entitled to give City a wide berth. Because you can be absolutely sure that what City has done will have damaged their reputation and will be common knowledge next year.

I am not trying got belittle the stress of the situation for anyone who has had a place withdraw - but does anyone know how many they over offered by and out of those, how many had planned to take a place that is now not available?
One could argue in relation to future applications to City, they have done themselves a favour and in future, only girls who really want to go there will apply and when offered a place, take it rather than hang around waiting!

Interesting suggestion to make all offers on state school offer day. My hunch is that marginally fewer people would accept the private school in that case

But in that case it would go down the waiting list, everyone's a winner! I don't think there is much to be gained by putting out indie offers before state. There will always be some who prefer state and some who prefer indie. The difference in candidates' exam scores will be marginal so indies will still be getting top quality candidates.

My DD will sit for City next year. If offered a place we will accept immediately.
I agree this year looks a mess and isn't good, but the truth is, it's a good school, and I would like to send my DD there.