City of London Girls full and withdrawing offers - anyone heard similar and advice?

[NL2016]

Admissions office of the City of London Girls school is now saying that they have had the target number of girls confirming acceptance and are downgrading firm offers to those who have not yet accepted back to the waiting list, all before 6 March deadline!!! any one heard anything and any advice how to handle this situation is appreciated!

It's the first time I hear about this but how horrible practice this is. I understand the constraints of space etc but that first come first served acceptance is just unfair. They got to think up something better.

I also agree that this is unfair. The reason for the March deadline is to align with state school offers and there are many whose decision is dependent on what the 'free' option is. In addition, others will legitimately want to visit schools again, and to check out travel times at rush hour - which has only been possible this week. Pulling the offers before the Offer Holders meeting/state deadline is just cruel. Put simply, there is no need for City or Channing or any of the others to over-offer by so much. They could always make fewer offers and have a longer waiting list. I suspect they choose not to as it makes them seem more desirable when they can claim higher take-up than expected. Interestingly, Highgate have done this before as their offer:acceptance ratio changed from 2.5:1 to 1.5:1, however they have adjusted by making fewer offers and last year took a number from the waiting list.

Whilst I sympathise with everyone who has had their offer turned into a waiting list offer and agree that the practice is unfair and off putting, it shouldn't really have come as a surprise to anyone that CLSG have done exactly what they said they would do (and have done for the past few years).

NL2016- we are very, very happy with our decision to send DD to Godolphin. She is extremely happy there and is thriving-socially and academically. We have no regrets whatsoever. Is there any thing in particular you want to know? Feel free to pm me if you prefer.

We were torn between City and Godolphin , two very different schools. Our Ds is at City boys and is very happy there so naturally we first looked to its "sister" school. We liked both schools but ultimately felt that Godolphin was a better fit for DD. There were a few things that put us off City girls ( that might not be off putting for other people) whilst the only "negatives" of Godolphin for us were that the fees were higher and also that it doesn't have the same social and ethnic diversity of City.

Just for the record, Highgate also do exploding offers. Or at least they did two years ago and had done the previous year too. At the post offers open day the sort of sounded a virtual klaxon warning people to commit quickly and created quite a panic, a bit like estate agents holding an open house to get buyers into competition with one another.

I felt at the time it was most unfair. City Boys, UCS, Habs etc (ie their competitors for boys) didn't do it, they respected the agreed deadline. I don't know why Highgate had to be different and ditto City Girls.

I also agree that it's very hard to know with any certainty which is the favoured school until you have offers on the table (ideally the state ones too - lots of us aren't set on private for private's sake). Certainly our least preferred became our favourite during the process. It's all very well saying having an aspirational, realistic, banker and go for the highest that is offered, but in reality it's not as straightforwardly hierarchical. We went for three dodgy aspirationals/realistics, no bankers, because these were the schools nearest us and which seemed worth paying for.

Yes we did aspirational/aspirational/realistic, no bankers too as I don't see the worth in paying for a banker as our local good state school seemed equivalent to me. Hence no firm decisions until we had all offers in. Ludicrous that schools think there are enough extremely wealthy people out there these days to fill entire schools with people who are just set on one school, without consideration, and that one school is so head and shoulders above all other choices that all applicants will only choose them. Very arrogant imo, the schools are businesses and we are their customers. Businesses ignore customer choice at their peril, as history has shown us time and time again. I have no vested interest btw (no daughters)

I agree with ChocolateWombat. I think this is very poor tactics on City's part and it will backfire as the parents who jumped and accepted are likely to be these for whom City was the best (or only feasible) offer on the table. Not a good way to attract the strongest candidates to your school. At least give everyone a chance to attend the open day before accepting deposits or bring forward the open day to this week like all other schools are doing. This has put me off City. Chaotic!

I agree with all you mums who have expressed disquiet at this practice! Just picking up on a few comments above, I don't think leaving the consortium helped reduce the number of applicants at all because City's exams were on the 4th Jan, two days before the first of the consortium exams. I know parents who sat City only as a "practice run" for consortium! If they were serious about focusing on candidates who consider City as their first choice they would have held their exams on the same date as St Paul's or NLC. I am now wondering - what is the point if this open day next week??

I think it is bad form. Most London indies have a deadline just after state allocations day. They know that for many parents it is a stretch to pay the fees, and that the indie is back up in case they don't get the preferred state secondary.

They will also know that this group of pupils tend to do well. They tend to be motivated, and hard working, with good parental support. It is easier for richer parents to lose a deposit, as the price to be paid for holding onto a choice for longer. I can see several parents deciding that they will drop CLSG and have somewhere else (SHHS, Channing, G&L) as back up. This will weaken the City intake, including its economics diversity. More worrying is the knock on effect if it makes other school struggle to judge numbers and lead them to adopt the same approach.

I appreciate that there are bursaries, but the real strength of schools like City is that they also take a good number of the "missing middle". The children of London professionals ,who struggle with the cost of living in London, and who would only pay fees if the state alternative they are offered is unattractive, and unlikely to do give a bright child the opportunities they should have.

Needmoresleep I couldn't agree more!

They should have said first come first serve and or offered to everone who confirmed before the "deadline" date. The date should also at least 1 week after the state school announcement date too as many people weighting with other state choices available. Reading this thread carefully I think City didnt handle this well. Its a shame as my friend's daughter has been with the school the last 9 years since primary and they love it, they are hoping for their second daughter to have a place too.

When City came out of the consortium they sited the fact that their catchment was moving Eastwards as a primary reason. I wonder if this has something to do with it all. Perhaps they are aligning with different schools than they used to do, in terms of test dates and acceptances, etc.

That's interesting missing, about the shift of CLSG catchment eastwards. Though my impression is that the eastwards schools also have a final acceptance date to coincide with state school offers, so unless they too are doing exploding offers there would be no inherent reason for CLSG to do them.

(Warning - don't rely on my impression!! about closing dates - if you have an offer, I mean!)

I think that it would be reasonable for parents to assume that they could wait until the offer holder's day before making a decision.

If I were an affected parent I would be tempted to write to City, asking for my registration fees back.

It is an uncommon practice and AFAIK only two or three schools in North London go in for it (SPQGS, mentioned earlier in the thread doesn't)

But it is clear in all the admissions literature that this is what they do, and so parents should not be caught out by it. But there is of course no obligation whatsoever on the school to make hedging easy.

Now, any school can muck up its numbers occasionally. One SW school had a much lower rate of rejections than expected and was considering adding an extra class (which would have essentially wiped out its 13+ entry point for that cohort) but it didn't come to that in the end. The key difference between that school and CLSG being that they would honour all offers.

I hope that the practice adopted by CLSG does not spread.

They can be as clear as they like in their literature, but they are in the same position as all the other schools listed here and have adopted a policy that favours the school not the applicant. That alone is tells me more about the ethos of the school than the open day did.

Sounds harsh. Locally here in bristol parents can pay a holding deposit
Do you have othet offers.
We just applied for 3 state and nervous about that but private offer were 2 weeks ago just before half term.
Lots here hedge their bets in private and mad state apllications as backup .

DD is dyslexic and at 11+ applied for 5 schools. We were very unsure if any would take someone with such an uneven profile. We urged her to keep an open mind and not set her heart on any one school. In the event she was offered two schools, so she went to both offer days and we let her choose. She took this very seriously, including seeking advice from teachers at her prep.

We would have been really frustrated had one school withdrawn the offer before the offer day.

The fact is that it is simply ludicrous to withdraw offers before their own offer holders open morning. They went to great lengths to advertise that as a final opportunity to see the school, talk to teachers/students etc but now it will be a completely redundant event. Oddly they didn't mention in their brochure or at previous Open events that City only make conditional offers, prior to the offer email itself. I wonder why...

The other top schools are also unable to create bulge classes but they offer an appropriate number of spaces and operate proper waiting lists so that they don't end up having to rescind offers. The City approach puts the children last. They are the ones who have worked hard for months, have sat a challenging exam and have excelled at interview, only to have their "offers" taken away. It is disgraceful.

I'm not sure it is even in the best interests of City beyond cashing in a few extra deposits. The parents in a position to say yes now are those for whom City was the clear best choice either because their other options were not as good or because it is on their doorstep, and also the super rich who can afford to lose a deposit or two. If that's the reputation that City wish to propagate good luck to them.

We had a tough choice between City and Latymer and City have made it for us. So we're not victims by any stretch of the imagination and I'd rather our DD go to a school where she is treated properly.

I think the rescinding of offers is a dreadful way to go about things.

It is on the website that they might cancel offers. But have they actually done so before this year?

This would put me off applying for a school, tbh. There's enough stress and the odd mismatching deadline already, and I wouldn't want to add to that unless there was a truly exceptional reason so to do.

And given the number of good schools in London, striking one potential one off the list early is probably going to make things easier in the main.

It clearly is a sellers' (schools') and not buyers' (families') market. Not pleasant for buyers who would like to have time to make an informed choice, but this is what happens when there are far more customers than products.

But Bobo all of central London is like that, and other schools do not rescind offers.

It does make me wonder if there's a problem in the school's admissions department, or if it is just rather weak compared to other schools.

Here in Paris it's a sellers' market and the schools adopt different policies. At the end of the day they can choose to do what they like. I had some very poor experiences - one school cashed my deposit after agreeing to wait list my DD for a different site to the one she was allocated to (which we had always been clear we would not accept as it was not accessible to us) and I had to get a lawyer to assist me in getting it returned.

I got through to the admissions department, lovely lady but.... She said this year they made offers to fewer girls than last year and have been overwhelmed by the speed of take up. I put it to her that this was self inflicted due to their strange acceptance policy and the email they sent stating they were 65% full - created a "panic buy" stampede. City could have held the offer holders open day this week and opened the acceptance list at that point. I am disappointed but not the end of the world for my DD. She has offers to other top London day schools, 2 boarding plus 2 academic scholarship to choose from. We would have seriously considered City given the chance but it's the girls who may have had it as their absolute first choice that I really feel for.

My question is whether City has a 14 day cooling off period, as some other schools do....and it may well be a legal necessity to offer it.
If this is the case, anyone accepting yesterday could pull out within 2 weeks (which would be after State offers day) and get their money back.

I guess the canny may well have accepted and paid a deposit exactly 2 weeks before state school offers day, keeping their options open.

It is a worrying way to operate and I too am concerned it will spark panic in other schools who will then adopt the same practice in future years. I know that Heads and Bursars of even very popular independents have nightmares about how many offers to make and fear not filling up fully with the 'right' students or having to put on a bulge class. However, they all need to factor some contingency in for these possible outcomes and use their data to get their offers lists and waiting lists as accurate as possible. If they mess up, they and not the children should deal with the consequences.

I hope someone from City is reading this thread and seeing the negative reaction. Unfortunately I guess that they don't care. They feel untouchable and invincible in many ways, which makes them think they can do this....however the fact they do it at all suggests underlying insecurity about filling up.

If I were nasty and vindictive I might wish that the school would suffer and that all those who were pushed by panic to accept more quickly than they wished were either the weaker students on their lists and that the school loses out on the top students as a result of this practice, plus they also experience many of the stronger students who accepted still pulling out after state school offers day....after all, the £1000 deposit is small fry compared to y7 years of fees. And then perhaps they will find that those they are left to offer places to from the original wait list or the new one created when the offer 'exploded' have gone elsewhere or are really the bottom of what they would like. It would seem to serve them right if these things happened.

Schools seem to make a gentlemens agreement to offer on the same date and to have the 6 March as the deadline for acceptance - purposely a few days after State schools offers day. The fact that most schools are willing to stick to this agreement and 'play by the rules' but that City are not, makes them seem grabby, mercenary and unpleasant. Independent schools of course we in competition with each other, but they also often work together and need to support each other and provide a united front for the good of the sector to their customers, the parents. This behaviour just seems to break with all of that and us parents, the paying customers clearly don't like it. I hope they take note.