Need help in understanding 13+, 11+ and deferred 11+ entry dynamics

[mumlife9]

Hi, Can anyone shed some light on senior schools - we would be applying for senior schools from a Prep school ( Currently in Pre - prep - but decision time whether to go for 13+ prep or schools that go right through). Is it harder to get in at 13+ as compared to 11+ ? So far my understanding is 11+ entry is for state school intake and 13+ entry is for prep school intake, with few exceptions like Kings which has both 11+ and 13+ entry.

So far it seems the priority order should be schools that go right through followed by 13+ prep, even if prep school of associated senior school may be sometimes not as great.

Also from 13+ prep schools ( which do not prepare for 11+), you wont be able to apply for Kings? or does kings have separate entry quota for 13+ prep boys.

Thanks

Do you have an idea of secondary schools you're aiming for? Or too early for that?

People do leave prep school at 11, even if the school itself goes on to 13. The question to ask your potential prep schools is whether they will prepare the child for 11+ exams or only for 13+. That way you are keeping your options open.

In terms of places, DS2's headmaster says that there are fewer applicants per place at 13+ than there are at 11+ for boys in SW London or reachable from there. However his school goes to 13+ so of course he needs to keep us all there!

If you go for a prep which prepares for both 11+ and 13+ transfer then you are keeping your options open.

If there is no such think near you, then I'd go for the 13+ one (as preparation for pretests isn't that different from 11+) and supplement with a tutor for exam technique.

How different schools see their entry points varies. 10+ tends to be for state school, 11+ for both sectors and 13+ for private - but that's a wild generalisation and may well not be true of the schools you might be considering.

The other important difference is whether the 13+ school does admissions by conditional offer with CE as confirmatory exam or by a competitive exam. CE candidates tend to come from the private sector. Competitive exams may attract both.

You can't guess the numbers game this far in advance, and even if you ask about 'no poaching' agreements between preps and secondaries for particular entry points there's enough time for that all to change.

Assume you are SWLondon?
Some schools e.g. Kingston Grammar and Latimer upper take their main intake at 11. And only have occasional places at 13
Schools such as Hampton have an entry at 11 for their own prep, state school pupils and other preps that go to 11. They have another entry at 13 for prep pupils at schools that go to 13. However they still do an entrance exam age 10/11 (the pretext).
St Paul's starts age 13, however it has its own prep so they do take into their own prep at age 11. Likewise Westminster.
Some senior schools and prep schools have an agreement that the senior school won't poach pupils age 11 from a school that goes to 13.

Thank you - yes we are SW London. We are looking to get in to Kings/ St Pauls preferably now at 7+, if not atleast have a good chance at 11+/13+.
Therefore the question - even if we don't get in now, we don't want to go to a prep that scuppers the chance to get in at 13+/11+, either by rule or by competition.

Based on what is mentioned above, 13+ places seem more of ' occasional place +' status. Unless I have got it wrong.
Some schools ( SH specifically) mention that they prefer 13+ exams only and if you are interested in 11+ then this is not the school. Other school in the area ( Rokeby) also goes up to 13+ but I am not entirely sure whether they do deferred entry/ have non poaching agreements/ or prefer 13+ only etc..Having said that destination lists of these 13+ schools does mention Kings/ St Pauls among lots of other schools.

That's not quite right. Some schools have 13+ as a main entry point (it's only been this year that KCS had an 11+ entry point at all - before that it was 11*+ juniors with strong chance of seamless transfer). St. Paul's is still 13+ (isn't it?) and Westminster entirely so.

It really isn't an afterthought for Dulwich, and although usually fewer places, not for Alleyns or Emanuel either.

Though of course all that might have changed, by the time your DS is old enough to be actively planning his secondary transfer. For now, I suggest that you just don't want to rule out the standard exit points. So a prep that covers both 11+ and 13+ to a range of schools is probably the type of school to go for.

Most schools that start at 13+ pre-test at 11 now anyway, so prep schools will be preparing all pupils to take exams, regardless of if they leave at 11 or 13.

I teach at a 13+ prep school, but we prepare for pre-tests in year 6, we have children who sat RGS exams for example, some have gone for 11+ places some for 13+ places, the same with St. Paul's and KCS