New grammars by 2020 which will exclude 90% of local kids

[noblegiraffe]

What an excellent use of scarce public funding, to build schools that most kids can't access instead of using it to build good comprehensives to improve the life-chances of everyone.

Word from the government (who appear to be ploughing ahead with the proposals before they've even published the consultation results) is that new grammars will only take the top 10% rather than the top 25% of kids. God knows where they've got the evidence that the top 10% of kids require a different school but they're certainly not sharing it with us.

It is also beyond me how making grammar schools even more elite will help with the promised social mobility agenda, when previous discussions were about how the pass grade would be needed to be lowered to increase the number of disadvantaged kids gaining access.

And if you were in favour of a grammar school opening in your area because you thought your kid would get in, how sure are you now? How much less tempting is a grammar school opening up if your kid is more likely to be sent to the other school?

In addition, expect to see furious threads in the near future from parents whose local school of choice has converted to a grammar and their kid is now being bussed to another school in the MAT that they wouldn't have chosen for them.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38906594

The average A-C GCSE was below national average too.

gillybeanz Sat 11-Feb-17 18:35:35 I also think with a grammar in every town there wouldn't be the rush of mc families buying in gs areas, as these would be everywhere.

You might want to consider why it is that some children don't choose the nearest Grammar, opting for one further away. You'd be surprised how far children travel if there is a higher performing Grammar school they can get into.

Mum

I bet this happens a lot now you come to mention it.
I hadn't considered this.
Do you think mc parents would want their children to mix with those from a deprived area though? Even if they were being ferried in and out.
Would they want them mixing with a bright kid from a sink estate.
There used to be children like this in the old grammar system in the poorer areas.

Laugh so much about the dumb snobbery.
Round here even poor people get their kids into the better school (as tutoring not an issue; only geography ) And yet those poor kids do not seem to pull down the results at the leafy schools.

gillybeanz Sat 11-Feb-17 20:39:35 Do you think mc parents would want their children to mix with those from a deprived area though?

I can honestly say, not a single parent I know expressed a concern about whether their DCs would be going to school with other DCs from deprived areas.

Some of the distances that children travel to get to Grammar schools are so large some parents won't even know the areas that some children come from so won't know if they are deprived or not.

We live in an area with Grammars sadly most kids in them are from prep. We are in a great academy school and there are a lots of kids who opted for this school over grammar.

I think it raises standards in the area so only a good thing.

"I can honestly say, not a single parent I know expressed a concern about whether their DCs would be going to school with other DCs from deprived areas"

No, you're right. They aren't usually open about it.

Which County are you in 'Little'.

I throw a bit of a 'conundrum' in here regarding , mixing with your own type.

They are plenty of families that would who if offered Stretford Grammar or the 'Modern' in Timperley would take the Modern with both hands..

It is noticed in Trafford that 'Stretford Grammar' is the school of last choice !

BertrandRussell Sat 11-Feb-17 21:44:06 No, you're right. They aren't usually open about it.

So you think that most middle class families would choose a much lower performing school over a grammar school if they thought the grammar school had allocated places to chikldren from deprived areas?

But grammarcschools don't give places to children from deprived areas. So the question is moot.

STRETFORD , HANDSWORTH , CHATHAM ?

mum
Hey, thanks for that. How interesting perhaps I'm portraying a bit of inverted snobbery. I would have presumed that mc parents wouldn't hear of it.
Is this parents usually taking the dc such distances or is there a good access to public transport in these areas.
Kids round here tend to go to the nearest school they are offered a place,
there's not much between them tbh.
I can't imagine my dc having travelled far to get to school.
Funny as it isn't but my ds2 was the nearest child to his school and he was late everyday, less than a 5 min walk.

18.7% 12.8% and 24.7% FSM respectively ...

Flying
I live in a postcode that is 9th decile for deprivation
All else round here is 10th
But 50% of the kids go to the excellent comps over the border.

Grammars would remove that opportunity.

I've just looked at Stretford Grammar on a map. It's on the border of Stretford and Chorlton.

Stretford grammar has significantly fewer FSM children than the catchment has. It also has a much higher number of ESL children. So probably a significant number of children from immigrant families who are likely to be poor. But still with pretty stellar results. Any local unpopularity is likely to be down to racism

In Birmingham, one of the 8 grammars has a completely different (lower achieving) intake from the other 7, so, yes, I would say that school has no attraction for the suburban middle classes who would prefer their local lower performing comp(which might not actually be lower performing for higher ability pupils).

gillybeanz Sat 11-Feb-17 21:58:19 Hey, thanks for that. How interesting perhaps I'm portraying a bit of inverted snobbery. I would have presumed that mc parents wouldn't hear of it.

I'm sure some wouldn't. With the parents I know its all about getting into the school with the best results or the one that is hardest to get into.

Sorry to interrupt but
Round here even the poor
And non sharp elbowed get good schools
Grammar areas fail on that

t: Re: AstonOnMersey vs Wellington
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:58 pm
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From what I've heard/read on here I'd say Wellington over Ashton. But not being in the are for Wellington I've not looked round. Ashton is a great school though. Looked round twice now. Heard great reports from friends with Yr7s.

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Post subject: Re: AstonOnMersey vs Wellington
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:47 pm
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I've heard excellent reports from both schools. Many of my DC's friends go to Wellington (because of this and how good it was on the open day it became a tough decision of first choice of school) and have enjoyed their first 6 weeks.
They have a summer school (1 week in August) for children need help with transition and also class zero - about 15 children in a set of their brightest children.

I think it is perfectly possible for all schools to be good in areas with selection.

I am more than happy for my ds to "mix" with people from "lower classes" - but there again, being in Scotland, in a fully comprehensive system, we don't have much choice

I will admit that he he is a placing request to the school that is 5 minutes further walk away (15-20 minute walk rather than 10-15 minutes); there was a sporting reason for his placing request. School has, to date, been able to accept all placing requests.

School has 21% Free School Meals, a large part of its catchment is SIMD1 (Scottish Index of Multiple Deprivation) , ie very poor. But there are also "millionaires" and MC areas within its catchment. There are 55 languages spoken within a school of 1200 pupils, as well as multiple ethnicities and religions.

Yet despite - or because of - that, it gets good results. Kids can and go go to Oxbridge/RG/ancient Unis/study medicine/law/vet science/STEM subjects.

Might it possibly, just possibly, be because of good teaching and a pride in its diversity?

Grammar schools don't help that.

I have tried to post this 3 times now, it's losing it's appeal now.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/top-secondary-schools-greater-manchester-11681118

How many children fighting and not getting a place in one of the "ManCheshire" grammars are likely to fight to get a place in a "Wigan grammar".
I'd say the answer would be none. They would likely attend one of their great comps.
Maybe interesting for fly

Was interested in your posts about Stoke too, as spent a lot of time here growing up. "Duck".

The biggest threat to the quality of our children's education at the moment is underfunding, resulting in headteachers having to decide which subjects to cut, which staff to make redundant, what pastoral support is expendable, and whether they should operate a four day working week. This fucking government needs to get its priorities right and work with what it has got, not waste money on vanity projects that will do bugger all to resolve the real problem.

Has anywhere said that they're actually going to open a new Grammar School?